Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[Magic-Man]

I think a second water park is a high probability.

I'm curious to see the layout of the overall resort and what Universal can cook up with their 20 year experience with the current resort.

I'm thinking something like this. Forgive the horrible quality.

 

[ChrisFL]

I feel like Universal is holding up the announcement of a LOT of projects. I realize this is a bit normal as they are often 75% done with something before announcing it, it seems like but we're waiting for

Replacement of T2:3D
Replacement of Fear Factor Live (We're guessing) with something HP
Replacement of Kidzone with a number of possible attractions
The new Harry Potter coaster
Replacement for Shrek just teased
A third park, etc.

I really wonder how long they're planning to keep this quiet and whether we'll get a massive news dump like Disney did at D23

 

[AlexanderMBush]

I feel like Universal is holding up the announcement of a LOT of projects. I realize this is a bit normal as they are often 75% done with something before announcing it, it seems like but we're waiting for

Replacement of T2:3D
Replacement of Fear Factor Live (We're guessing) with something HP
Replacement of Kidzone with a number of possible attractions
The new Harry Potter coaster
Replacement for Shrek just teased
A third park, etc.

I really wonder how long they're planning to keep this quiet and whether we'll get a massive news dump like Disney did at D23

I would expect an announcement to come shortly after Drupercharged, but it may not make people happy in a certain way.

 

[Magic-Man]

I feel like Universal is holding up the announcement of a LOT of projects. I realize this is a bit normal as they are often 75% done with something before announcing it, it seems like but we're waiting for

Replacement of T2:3D
Replacement of Fear Factor Live (We're guessing) with something HP
Replacement of Kidzone with a number of possible attractions
The new Harry Potter coaster
Replacement for Shrek just teased
A third park, etc.

I really wonder how long they're planning to keep this quiet and whether we'll get a massive news dump like Disney did at D23

I don't know why, but it feels like we'll get something big within a few weeks after F&F opens. I'm probably wrong though.

 

[fryoj]

I feel like Universal is holding up the announcement of a LOT of projects. I realize this is a bit normal as they are often 75% done with something before announcing it, it seems like but we're waiting for

Replacement of T2:3D
Replacement of Fear Factor Live (We're guessing) with something HP
Replacement of Kidzone with a number of possible attractions
The new Harry Potter coaster
Replacement for Shrek just teased
A third park, etc.

I really wonder how long they're planning to keep this quiet and whether we'll get a massive news dump like Disney did at D23

I don't see any reason that they wouldn't do what they've always done. IF they were going to do a dump, they would have done it right after D23 to steal it's thunder. Since they didn't they'll continue announcing when they are closing a ride for a vaguely described attraction. Then they'll wait until construction is well underway to actually announce the rides. No reason to suspect they will do anything different at this point.

The only wildcard to that is how they handle the south property.

 

[Scott W.]

I feel like Universal is holding up the announcement of a LOT of projects. I realize this is a bit normal as they are often 75% done with something before announcing it, it seems like but we're waiting for

Replacement of T2:3D
Replacement of Fear Factor Live (We're guessing) with something HP
Replacement of Kidzone with a number of possible attractions
The new Harry Potter coaster
Replacement for Shrek just teased
A third park, etc.

I really wonder how long they're planning to keep this quiet and whether we'll get a massive news dump like Disney did at D23

Sure, we're getting worked up about the lack of announcements but we make up a very small percentage of their guests. They don't need to make announcements and a small and steady stream probably benefits them in the long run.

I'm thinking something like this. Forgive the horrible quality.

I'd love to see a hub and spoke layout for the new resort. CityWalk in the middle.


You could take this a huge leap forward and have the car park under CityWalk and an underground road network kind of like Magic Kingdom but on a grand scale.

 

[Magic-Man]

I'd love to see a hub and spoke layout for the new resort. CityWalk in the middle.

View attachment 6224
You could take this a huge leap forward and have the car park under CityWalk and an underground road network kind of like Magic Kingdom but on a grand scale.

I like everything but the car park idea. That seems a little weird to me, plus it's hard to build major underground structures in Florida.

 

[Scott W.]

I like everything but the car park idea. That seems a little weird to me, plus it's hard to build major underground structures in Florida.

It wouldn’t be underground. CityWalk would be on the 4th or 5th floor. Imagine something similar to a multi level airport.

 

[bob albert]

Parking structures are really expensive. I could see universal making the unused space they have for parking until building a 4th park makes it necessary to build them much like with the original studios.

 

[Scott W.]

This looks like a challenge to hide.

 

[Teebin]

What, the ferris wheel? That will disappear in a flash once buildings and facades and landscaping is in place.

That said, if you stand in IOA or US and look for Fun Spot America, then you can probably find it on the horizon. The good news is that it is not where peoples heads are at. They see the pretty stuff right in front of them.

 

[zg44]

Here's my estimates for timeline of the lawsuits/land acquisitions going forwards:

1) Around 4th quarter of 2018: Expect Universal to win the lawsuit with Stan Thomas. The case is less likely to settle because of the foreclosure suit (Universal doesn't want to give Stan Thomas money that would help him keep those prime parcels in the foreclosure suit).

2) Around 1st quarter of 2019: Expect Universal to purchase the prime parcels from UCPM III out of the foreclosure suit.

3) Around mid/late 2019: Expect Universal to arrange a purchase of the remainder of UCPM III (and FQP) from Stan Thomas.

It feels like most of the land issues should be solved over the next 18 months. That would clear up any remaining issues as the land preparation/building process kicks into high gear before 2020.

 

[fryoj]

Here's my estimates for timeline of the lawsuits/land acquisitions going forwards:

1) Around 4th quarter of 2018: Expect Universal to win the lawsuit with Stan Thomas. The case is less likely to settle because of the foreclosure suit (Universal doesn't want to give Stan Thomas money that would help him keep those prime parcels in the foreclosure suit).

2) Around 1st quarter of 2019: Expect Universal to purchase the prime parcels from UCPM III out of the foreclosure suit.

3) Around mid/late 2019: Expect Universal to arrange a purchase of the remainder of UCPM III (and FQP) from Stan Thomas.

It feels like most of the land issues should be solved over the next 18 months. That would clear up any remaining issues as the land preparation/building process kicks into high gear before 2020.

The flip side to all of this, is how much does putting everything off another year cost Universal? That land isn't making any money growing grass. The quicker they can get building, the quicker they can start making money off of it. Theres also the inflation factor of the longer they wait, the more materials, labor, even interest on loans will cost them. The longer this goes, the more they pay in legal fees as well. So the question is, how much more will it cost them just to go buy out Thomas now, rather than letting this all go through the process you describe? If that number is less than $50 million, I almost think it's better just to pay him off now.

 

[Magic-Man]

Here's my estimates for timeline of the lawsuits/land acquisitions going forwards:

1) Around 4th quarter of 2018: Expect Universal to win the lawsuit with Stan Thomas. The case is less likely to settle because of the foreclosure suit (Universal doesn't want to give Stan Thomas money that would help him keep those prime parcels in the foreclosure suit).

2) Around 1st quarter of 2019: Expect Universal to purchase the prime parcels from UCPM III out of the foreclosure suit.

3) Around mid/late 2019: Expect Universal to arrange a purchase of the remainder of UCPM III (and FQP) from Stan Thomas.

It feels like most of the land issues should be solved over the next 18 months. That would clear up any remaining issues as the land preparation/building process kicks into high gear before 2020.

I thought the lawsuit would be decided next month?

 

[fryoj]

I thought the lawsuit would be decided next month?

First court date. With him in a foreclosure suit, Uni would likely drag their feet, and get continuances to let that suit play out. Gives them more leverage in negotiations.

 

[zg44]

The flip side to all of this, is how much does putting everything off another year cost Universal? That land isn't making any money growing grass. The quicker they can get building, the quicker they can start making money off of it. Theres also the inflation factor of the longer they wait, the more materials, labor, even interest on loans will cost them. The longer this goes, the more they pay in legal fees as well. So the question is, how much more will it cost them just to go buy out Thomas now, rather than letting this all go through the process you describe? If that number is less than $50 million, I almost think it's better just to pay him off now.

Yeah, my guess is just that there's at least a $100 million difference between what Stan Thomas is asking for the current UCPM III+FQP lands plus the Master Declarant rights and what Universal is offering.

My guess is Universal is offering around $75 million for all of UCPM III+FQP+Master Declarant rights. Stan Thomas is probably asking for around $200 million+.

That's why Universal is going to drag out the main lawsuit in order to try to get those 3 prime parcels out of UCPM III in the foreclosure suit. That probably brings us to a negotiation somewhere around $40-50 million for the remainder in mid-2019.

Without those prime parcels on Universal Blvd., the leftover lands in UCPM III are mostly only worth owning by Universal.

 

[Magic-Man]

First court date. With him in a foreclosure suit, Uni would likely drag their feet, and get continuances to let that suit play out. Gives them more leverage in negotiations.

I see them wanting to pay off Thomas as soon as possible. It's going to take at least 4 years to build the resort, so they need get started soon.

 

[Disneyhead]

I see them wanting to pay off Thomas as soon as possible. It's going to take at least 4 years to build the resort, so they want to get started as soon as possible.

My guess is as soon as the zoning issue is settled, then things will start moving forward.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

They can start building on the land they own after April, all the other land they still need to settle/acquire can be saved for later.

 

[Magic-Man]

They can start building on the land they own after April, all the other land they still need to settle/acquire can be saved for later.

Okay, now I'm confused. Can they, or can they not, start building after the hearing in April?