Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[AlexanderMBush]

Id say that was a good starting point.

Would the two hotels be golf channel and maybe Madagascar?

I would be curious if the two hotels would actually be Cirque and TGC, due to proximity of the OCCC.

Attach those to the new Entertainment Complex, with then pads for 4 more hotels shortly after, and it add's more room to expand, and more capacity to withhold.

 

[Marni1971]

A second City Walk style facility is a no brainer too.

I just hope they do properly connect the three areas.

 

[Mad Dog]

Id say that was a good starting point.

Would the two hotels be golf channel and maybe Madagascar?

Makes sense since there might be a hookup/expansion? with the adjacent private golf course plus there's already been artwork concepts for Dreamworks/Madagascar themed hotel & pool.

 

[zg44]

You guys are getting way too caught up in the # of hotels. The # of hotels is a nearly irrelevant statistic for a theme park resort.

The # of hotel rooms is the actual statistic that matters.

As long as there's around 2500-3000 hotel rooms when the new CityWalk 2.0 and 3rd dry park open, it doesn't matter if those are spread into 2 or 3 or 4 hotels. That number of rooms will be expanded up to 5000+ over a few years and then upwards to 10000 as they look into the feasibility/timing of a 4th dry park.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Remember that Hard Rock, Portofino, and Royal Pacific opened over several years. Then over a decade later till Cabana Bay.

 

[GAcoaster]

So, I know it may be far fetched in some ways, but in some ways it would make sense...

It would be in Orange County's best interests to work with Universal on this project in any way they can to bring billions of dollars in investment and new revenue from new parks. So what if they work with Universal to relocate the sewage plant? While it wouldn't be cheap or easy, it's not beyond the realm of possibility. Looking at the maps the logical thing that the county could do would be to build a new plant in the vicinity of the existing one meaning that the existing pipes would require a minimum amount of re-routing, and it just so happens that Universal owns a large plot (almost exactly the same size as the existing sewage plant) on the opposite side of Sand Lake Road backing up to an industrial park and the Turnpike. It would mean they could upgrade the plant to handle more (for all the new growth), improve treatment (reducing odors) and free up valuable space and take over what would be nearly useless land for Universal.

If they could affect some kind of land swap and Universal shoulders some of the costs, it could free up more land for development and take care of a major problem that the new property currently has. As it is, something will have to be done about the smells coming from that plant in order to make the place desirable for development. Just driving past it on Sand Lake Road is HORRIBLE. I can't imagine having hotel rooms or theme parks adjacent to that plant.

 

[Andysol]

So what if they work with Universal to relocate the sewage plant? While it wouldn't be cheap or easy, it's not beyond the realm of possibility. Looking at the maps the logical thing that the county could do would be to build a new plant in the vicinity of the existing one meaning that the existing pipes would require a minimum amount of re-routing, and it just so happens that Universal owns a large plot (almost exactly the same size as the existing sewage plant) on the opposite side of Sand Lake Road backing up to an industrial park and the Turnpike. It would mean they could upgrade the plant to handle more (for all the new growth), improve treatment (reducing odors) and free up valuable space and take over what would be nearly useless land for Universal.

As it is, something will have to be done about the smells coming from that plant in order to make the place desirable for development. Just driving past it on Sand Lake Road is HORRIBLE. I can't imagine having hotel rooms or theme parks adjacent to that plant.

This simply isn’t going to happen.

Everything you said I agree with in theory- but you’re talking around 50-100 million dollars. At a minimum.
They also just completed a $13mil upgrade this past fall.
Additionally- I believe they are creating a new plant for the west side that will relieve pressure off the SW plant.
If this were an old or outdated plant, I’d agree with you. But this thing is state of the art, for the most part.

Not to bore you with the details of how expansions and relocations work- but unless EPA/FDEP forces an upgrade or new plant- counties, municipalities and industries (even the massive ones) just don’t do it. And the only time they do is due to capacity. They must have plant expansion plans once their average flow reaches 60% of capacity. And construction must start by the time they reach 80%. ~26MGD and 34MGD avg daily flow in this instance.

Odor they can handle- and do. This isn’t the only WWTP located in the middle of a wealthy population. I was at a plant a few weeks ago smack dab in the middle of memorial village Texas with multi million dollar homes all around it. Literally- same sub division. City of Fort Worth is ~200MGD plant (5x the size of this) in the same situation. Not a smell to be had.

It stinks now because it can- who is gonna complain? But it’ll be more than handled by the time the new resort is within smelling distance.

 

[Mad Dog]

A GIANT ET scent like queue going into the park area should handle any odor problems from the sewage plant. :bolt:

 

[JoeCamel]

We can dream big on what can get built in the projected time frame but the reality is that labor is in short supply and skilled labor even tighter. Material costs are skyrocketing and sure Comcast can toss money at this to move it along but that is a bunch of money they would not have to spend if the schedule was longer

 

[s8film40]

We can dream big on what can get built in the projected time frame but the reality is that labor is in short supply and skilled labor even tighter. Material costs are skyrocketing and sure Comcast can toss money at this to move it along but that is a bunch of money they would not have to spend if the schedule was longer

Once you commit to doing this money saved by stretching it out farther probably doesn't equal the lost potential revenue of all this not being open.

 

[JoeCamel]

Once you commit to doing this money saved by stretching it out farther probably doesn't equal the lost potential revenue of all this not being open.

I think we are in a unique time here in Florida, with the parks expansion, housing boom, everyone trying to beat the tax deadline construction costs and timelines will be stretched to the limits. Contractors are talking about how hard labor is to get and the material costs increasing. A lot of that is all the labor left with the housing bust and were retrained to other work. New labor has to be trained which leads to mistakes and delays.

 

[Teebin]

It stinks now because it can- who is gonna complain? But it’ll be more than handled by the time the new resort is within smelling distance.

Where would they release the treated water to? Into Shingle creek?

 

[s8film40]

Where would they release the treated water to? Into Shingle creek?

I don’t know about this one, but it’s typically used in sprinklers and what’s left over is pumped to rapid infiltration basins. Maybe this one releases it into Shingle Creek, I don’t know.

 

[JoeCamel]

Around here they require the land owners to use it for irrigation. Was just a bill to let them pump it down injection wells back to the aquifer to combat saltwater intrusion. Glad Gov vetoed it but I am sure the measure will be back in the future

 

[Andysol]

Where would they release the treated water to? Into Shingle creek?

Im out of town and don’t have access to their NPDES permit and a google search didn’t pull one up. So I won’t know the exact name- but I’d bet all the money in my bank account it’s whatever creek/stream this is right here:

EDIT: there is another WWTP due north of it off LB McLeod and pres obama highway that discharged into the same stream.

I don’t know about this one, but it’s typically used in sprinklers and what’s left over is pumped to rapid infiltration basins. Maybe this one releases it into Shingle Creek, I don’t know.

Every plant is different. The plants in and around Phoenix, for example- are mainly reuse and ground discharge- irrigation, etc. The majority of drinking water comes from wells- the rest is reuse wastewater.

But the majority of areas (I’m in Georgia now, for example) discharge into a stream, which makes its way to a lake (or ocean on coastal areas). You then pull water from that lake, treat it- and drink it. The great circle of life of renewable resources.

I’m not incredibly familiar with Florida and that area- so it might just be used for industrial reuse- but the lack of irrigation areas in the area as well as lack of power plants (which would just use for cooling towers then discharge it anyway) leads me to believe that it ends up in a lake somewhere. The cover page of the permit would tell you exactly.

Language is “discharges to unnamed ditch to xyz creek”, etc.

 

[s8film40]

Im out of town and don’t have access to their NPDES permit and a google search didn’t pull one up. So I won’t know the exact name- but I’d bet all the money in my bank account it’s this whatever creek/stream this is right here:

Every plant is different. The plants in and around Phoenix, for example- are mainly reuse and ground discharge- irrigation, etc. The majority of drinking water comes from wells- the rest is reuse wastewater.

But the majority of areas (I’m in Georgia now, for example) discharge into a stream, which makes its way to a lake (or ocean on coastal areas). You then pull water from that lake, treat it- and drink it. The great circle of life of renewable resources.

I’m not incredibly familiar with Florida and that area- so it might just be used for industrial reuse- but the lack of irrigation areas in the area as well as lack of power plants (which would just use for cooling towers then discharge it anyway) leads me to believe that it ends up in a lake somewhere. The cover page of the permit would tell you exactly.

Language is “discharges to unnamed ditch to xyz creek”, etc.

That’s Shingle Creek I think . All of my water treatment plant knowledge comes from touring the Disney/RCID one, they send the water to irrigation throughout WDW with the remainder going into the rapid infiltration basins along 429. I believe Orange County also has some in that area as well.

Also there is a power plant a little further down 528 with two very large cooling towers.

 

[Andysol]

That’s Shingle Creek I think . All of my water treatment plant knowledge comes from touring the Disney/RCID one, they send the water to irrigation throughout WDW with the remainder going into the rapid infiltration basins along 429. I believe Orange County also has some in that area as well.

Also there is a power plant a little further down 528 with two very large cooling towers.

Damn- I’d love to see those plants and talk to some operators there. Maybe even do their testing so I can write off my trips for “business”, of course.


Btw- just traced your stream- Lake Tohopekaliga. That’s where it ends (well- technically it’ll keep going) but that’s where it “mostly” ends

 

[s8film40]

Damn- I’d love to see those plants and talk to some operators there. Maybe even do their testing so I can write off my trips for “business”, of course.

You should look up the info and send them an email. They seemed very open to giving tours when I did it.

 

[Andysol]

Where would they release the treated water to? Into Shingle creek?

Oh ya- just for clarification- treated water isn’t the issue. The treated water is what you swim, boat, water ski, catch fish, etc in. It won’t have a smell (unless something went wrong).

Do you see the big circle things from the overhead pic? Those are called “clarifiers” and holding tanks. And (depending on the plant)- they’ll hold the waste in those while they spray them with water, aerate, let the bugs/microbes eat all the crap.

They’ll also add a polymer to it (this is called de watering) and remove the “cake” - aka- poop (which coincidentally Smells more like dirt once the polymer is added). And it goes up through a belt press which mashes it into coffee ground consistency and then into the back of a dump truck to haul off for the landfill (in rare cases they compost). The amount of crap- literally- in our landfills is sad. But that’s the cheapest and easiest way to handle treatment.

So back to smells- they can spike their lift stations, clarifiers, etc with additional bugs/microbes. They can also add odor control and masking agents to the clarifiers as well with the spray arms on top of all the clarifiers. Lots of ways. It’s costly as they have to use “non toxic” items that won’t make them fail their testing parameters or cause fish kills (what we do)- but it’s infinitely less expensive than plant relocation.

We do a lot of work with these products as well- a lot of them need to determine the toxicity of their products to aquatic life. Most are mom and pop shops but there are some incredibly large companies like Nalco in it as well. Nalco being our best customer of the year during the BP spill.

 

[WAJAS]

That’s Shingle Creek I think . All of my water treatment plant knowledge comes from touring the Disney/RCID one, they send the water to irrigation throughout WDW with the remainder going into the rapid infiltration basins along 429. I believe Orange County also has some in that area as well.

Also there is a power plant a little further down 528 with two very large cooling towers.

I can confirm it’s shingle creek. There’s also a sign near a bridge acrosses it that says it leads to the Everglades.