Wizarding World - Diagon Alley Discussion - Part 2

[Hatetofly]

As soon as I'm allowed you bet I will :thumbs:

 

[brianlo]

We need to drop those capacity predictions by about 20-25%, Seems I may have some logistics in terms of train car capacity incorrect, as major interior changes to the cabins themselves were made between design, Europe, and arrival. More on that later...

Dividing that by half, doesn't that start to put Hogwarts Express in Soarin' type capacity in each direction?

Granted each park is pulling in half the numbers of Epcot, but have twice the attractions on offer.

 

[natespf]

Dividing that by half, doesn't that start to put Hogwarts Express in Soarin' type capacity in each direction?

Granted each park is pulling in half the numbers of Epcot, but have twice the attractions on offer.

I don't think there is a need to divide the capacity in half. I don't believe the demand would be doubled as a result of a station in each park. Some people may ride it multiple times for that reason, but also some people will not ride it at all.

 

[Disneyhead]

A lot of theming details have gone up on the Wyndham Theater. I'll post pics when I get home.

 

[Miketheboss]

The train looks "thin" meaning that I think its not big enough for cabins with a large enough hallway.

This wont do.

This will.

 

[Miketheboss]

At the 11 second mark.

[video=youtube;P_O0A1CoP_w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_O0A1CoP_w[/video]

This is what I think it will look like

 

[Disneyhead]

I'm pretty sure it is going to have a side hallway and individual couchettes.

 

[Miketheboss]

I'm pretty sure it is going to have a side hallway and individual couchettes.

This open design will heighten the ride capacity . For example, it was said the cabin holds 8 people, lets say that's two family's. But one family is 5 in total, one person will have to sit in a cabin with random people. That's going to be a nightmare keeping groups together and that would mean many cabins not being fully filled. With this open design, it wouldn't really matter because you can sit across the hallway and its ok.

 

[Jymmymack]

I think it's been already confirmed by several insiders that the cars indeed will have a single hallway and individual couchettes as Disneyhead has said.

 

[Hatetofly]

I think it's been already confirmed by several insiders that the cars indeed will have a single hallway and individual couchettes as Disneyhead has said.

Indeed you can go back as far as Late 2012 to find pretty accurate info about interior details of the Express.

 

[brianlo]

I don't think there is a need to divide the capacity in half. I don't believe the demand would be doubled as a result of a station in each park. Some people may ride it multiple times for that reason, but also some people will not ride it at all.

But by virtue of the fact you can only get on it travelling one direction, the actual line you are in for "the attraction" has a capacity that is half of the total. You really have to treat each direction as separate attractions that are separated by space and have separate queues.

Think of it another way: Duelling Dumbo's has one line that feeds directly into two separate spinners, but you are only getting on one. So the line you are waiting in now has a "double" capacity even though there are two physically separate Dumbos.

But before they made this move, if you were to throw another spinner halfway across the park as they did with Aladdin. It doesn't acutely change the Dumbo line, because they are different lines. Sure the total park-wide spinner capacity was doubled, and some people will only ride one, but many people will still choose to ride both because of their slightly differing nature. The total capacity and number of rides one can get on is now greater, but it really doesn't alleviate the Dumbo line apart from those select few that are happy just hopping on Aladdin instead.

The same can be applied to Hogwarts Express, even though there are "two" Hogwarts Express experiences, you are still only waiting on one, which is half of the total ride capacity and your line will only move at half of the total hourly capacity.

The problem (like the Aladdin spinner) is that in guests minds they are actually two separate rides, and while some may only ride HE once, there will still be a ton of people who choose to ride it twice, because they are "unique" attractions.

The second issue that makes this worse than my spinner analogy is that now you open it up to a larger pool of guests (all the people in IOA and Universal Studios), so that even if only 50% choose to ride it in both directions, your wait time heading in any given direction is artificially raised by guests from another park heading back in the other direction.



Really all I'm getting at from this is that ~2700 guests, or a ride capacity of 1350 per hour for a major family E-ticket is no longer the wonderful ballyhooed guest capacity we once discussed. It's not a problem unless an unnatural number of guests entering the turnstiles HAVE to ride that ride as part of their day experience (or because it's the only ride like Soarin' or Toy Story Midway Mania). Unfortunately, this is Harry Potter we are talking about, and everyone is going to want to ride this thing over and over again.

Mark my words, this thing is going to have massive waits. They should have built it for three trains.

It's also going to be a frustrating line to wait in, because the line will only move forward once every full ride cycle.

 

[Disneyhead]

But by virtue of the fact you can only get on it travelling one direction, the actual line you are in for "the attraction" has a capacity that is half of the total. You really have to treat each direction as separate attractions that are separated by space and have separate queues.

Think of it another way: Duelling Dumbo's has one line that feeds directly into two separate spinners, but you are only getting on one. So the line you are waiting in now has a "double" capacity even though there are two physically separate Dumbos.

But before they made this move, if you were to throw another spinner halfway across the park as they did with Aladdin. It doesn't acutely change the Dumbo line, because they are different lines. Sure the total park-wide spinner capacity was doubled, and some people will only ride one, but many people will still choose to ride both because of their slightly differing nature. The total capacity and number of rides one can get on is now greater, but it really doesn't alleviate the Dumbo line apart from those select few that are happy just hopping on Aladdin instead.

The same can be applied to Hogwarts Express, even though there are "two" Hogwarts Express experiences, you are still only waiting on one, which is half of the total ride capacity and your line will only move at half of the total hourly capacity.

The problem (like the Aladdin spinner) is that in guests minds they are actually two separate rides, and while some may only ride HE once, there will still be a ton of people who choose to ride it twice, because they are "unique" attractions.

The second issue that makes this worse than my spinner analogy is that now you open it up to a larger pool of guests (all the people in IOA and Universal Studios), so that even if only 50% choose to ride it in both directions, your wait time heading in any given direction is artificially raised by guests from another park heading back in the other direction.



Really all I'm getting at from this is that ~2700 guests, or a ride capacity of 1350 per hour for a major family E-ticket is no longer the wonderful ballyhooed guest capacity we once discussed. It's not a problem unless an unnatural number of guests entering the turnstiles HAVE to ride that ride as part of their day experience (or because it's the only ride like Soarin' or Toy Story Midway Mania). Unfortunately, this is Harry Potter we are talking about, and everyone is going to want to ride this thing over and over again.

Mark my words, this thing is going to have massive waits. They should have built it for three trains.

It's also going to be a frustrating line to wait in, because the line will only move forward once every full ride cycle.

Your spinner analogy is incorrect. Both trains will load at each station. So it will actually be 2700 from each station. 5400 for the whole attraction. And there is NO WAY to utilize 3 trains with this ride system.

 

[grandmath]

I think it's been already confirmed by several insiders that the cars indeed will have a single hallway and individual couchettes as Disneyhead has said.

It's also confirmed by the fact we've seen on pictures that only one side of the HE has screens. The other side will be regular windows, so the only solution is to have a single hallway with individual couchettes with a closing door hiding these windows so guests can focus on their screen.

 

[Rwberger]

Your spinner analogy is incorrect. Both trains will load at each station. So it will actually be 2700 from each station. 5400 for the whole attraction. And there is NO WAY to utilize 3 trains with this ride system.

DH, I agree that we're limited to two trains. But total system capacity is much closer to BrianLo's number. The originally stated capacity was 168 people per train: 7 cabins per car each with 8 passengers is 56 per car and there are 3 cars per train, for a total of 168. If trains run 10 times per hour, that was 1680 per hour for each train, for a total of 3360 people per hour from both stations put together. If HTF is right that capacity is decreased by 25%, then we're now at a total hourly system capacity of only 3360 x 3/4, which is 2520. At each station, that's 1260 people per hour. To increase capacity, a car would need to be added to each train. But that's only possible if the passing track and both platforms are long enough to accommodate the longer train. Another constraint might be the strength of the cable system itself. I have to guess that there is a maximum weight limit for that system.

 

[darkridelover]

The train looks "thin" meaning that I think its not big enough for cabins with a large enough hallway.

This wont do.

This is exactly what it will be

 

[Disneyhead]

DH, I agree that we're limited to two trains. But total system capacity is much closer to BrianLo's number. The originally stated capacity was 168 people per train: 7 cabins per car each with 8 passengers is 56 per car and there are 3 cars per train, for a total of 168. If trains run 10 times per hour, that was 1680 per hour for each train, for a total of 3360 people per hour from both stations put together. If HTF is right that capacity is decreased by 25%, then we're now at a total hourly system capacity of only 3360 x 3/4, which is 2520. At each station, that's 1260 people per hour. To increase capacity, a car would need to be added to each train. But that's only possible if the passing track and both platforms are long enough to accommodate the longer train. Another constraint might be the strength of the cable system itself. I have to guess that there is a maximum weight limit for that system.

Sorry, you are correct. That's what I get for posting at 3:45 in the morning.

So on to the pics!!!

Now on to Diagon Alley:

And a look into Diagon Ally

This has me a little concerned!

 

[Teebin]

Great pics DH. Thanks. What in hell is that T-mounted thing on top of Gringotts? It looks like original JP gate warning lights in that scene as the power comes back online. The building materials, as ever, cause me a thousand questions which shall go out in private emails this afternoon. I will be very curious to see what the actual scale is on the Wyndham. If it is any less than 15/16th I will be surprised.

 

[natespf]

DH, I agree that we're limited to two trains. But total system capacity is much closer to BrianLo's number. The originally stated capacity was 168 people per train: 7 cabins per car each with 8 passengers is 56 per car and there are 3 cars per train, for a total of 168. If trains run 10 times per hour, that was 1680 per hour for each train, for a total of 3360 people per hour from both stations put together. If HTF is right that capacity is decreased by 25%, then we're now at a total hourly system capacity of only 3360 x 3/4, which is 2520. At each station, that's 1260 people per hour. To increase capacity, a car would need to be added to each train. But that's only possible if the passing track and both platforms are long enough to accommodate the longer train. Another constraint might be the strength of the cable system itself. I have to guess that there is a maximum weight limit for that system.

It's still a transportation ride though. So I am thinking the demand would be less than a traditional eTicket, and they may cap the lines much shorter. When thinking about the average guests, how many would want to change parks in any given hour? I mean we know it's going to get slammed, just like Phase I. But after that would it have enough capacity? I have yet to draw a conclusion.

 

[TylerDurden]

It's still a transportation ride though. So I am thinking the demand would be less than a traditional eTicket, and they may cap the lines much shorter. When thinking about the average guests, how many would want to change parks in any given hour? I mean we know it's going to get slammed, just like Phase I. But after that would it have enough capacity? I have yet to draw a conclusion.

It's not just a transportation ride. A transportation ride's primary motive is to take guests from point A to point B, with guests losing nothing if they choose to walk between the two points. Choosing to walk to IOA instead of riding the train means missing out on a major attraction, and one of the few in either park that people or all heights can ride. It will be an experience in itself, with very much the same demand as a traditional E-ticket, if not moreso because of its lack of restrictions. It's not about how many guests will want to change over parks, it's about how many will want to ride the train. This isn't just a monorail, this is a full-blown attraction, and I could see it attracting more people than FJ, simply due to its lack of height requirement and motion aspect.

 

[natespf]

It's not just a transportation ride. A transportation ride's primary motive is to take guests from point A to point B, with guests losing nothing if they choose to walk between the two points. Choosing to walk to IOA instead of riding the train means missing out on a major attraction, and one of the few in either park that people or all heights can ride. It will be an experience in itself, with very much the same demand as a traditional E-ticket, if not moreso because of its lack of restrictions. It's not about how many guests will want to change over parks, it's about how many will want to ride the train. This isn't just a monorail, this is a full-blown attraction, and I could see it attracting more people than FJ, simply due to its lack of height requirement and motion aspect.

I am sorry if it was unclear when I alluded to this being a hybrid transportation/ride. But I am also wondering if the average visitor would know or understand the difference.

With a straight up transportation ride there is a tipping point where it may be better to just walk than to wait. But also with traditional eTicket rides there are varying times someone would be willing to wait. Anywhere between the die-hard that would wait out any time, to the person that could care less about the ride. This is essentially a first, so it is harder to foresee.

Just pondering all possibilities. I don't think we have any firm numbers yet, just some estimates to think about.