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Avatar: The Way Of Water

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nick
  • Start date Start date Jan 17, 2019
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Nick

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  • Dec 13, 2022
  • #301
OrlandoGuy said:
More complex story = less international appeal
Click to expand...
This is 100% true, actually.

Why is the original Avatar so popular in China and other places despite not having made much of a pop culture dent? Because it was a simple story about peaceful, environmentalist blue people who are under attack by the US Military. So it's an environmentalist movie AND a war movie all in one and because the Na'vi are blue, you can be any race and identify with them because of the simple fact that they are blue and your mind knows that blue people don't exist.

It also had Jake Sully as a paraplegic, who, once he steps into his Avatar body, can now walk again, which provides one of the more heartwarming and just straight up awesome scenes in the movie when Jake first wakes up in his Avatar body a realizes he can walk again and opens the door and as the audience, we see Pandora for the first time through Jake's eyes as he runs around and takes his first steps in his body.

Top Gun: Maverick had a similar feel of it not being too complex and it was just a fun summer movie. The thing with the MCU too is we're 30 movies and many shows deep at this point. It's next to impossible to just jump into a Marvel movie these days and still know what's going on. Wakanda Forever was made in a way so people could do that, but once we get into Phase Five and the Kang story starts to really get going, It's really gonna be hard. That's not a knock against it because it's a cinematic Universe so that's what they're trying to do. But barrier for entry of new people watching these stories becomes more and more difficult the deeper and deeper we get into something like the MCU whereas a Top Gun or Avatar is just... easy, simple, and something almost everyone can enjoy.
 
Lucky Planet

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theres a big big difference between a simple story and a cliche, old story that has been told before...
simple stories can still be new or creative. you can have simple stories that feel new. or at least feel like a new take on an old story,

from spoilers i saw, this movie sounds boring and preachy and cliche story wise ( but with amazing visuals
 
Nick

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  • #303
Lucky Planet said:
theres a big big difference between a simple story and a cliche, old story that has been told before...
simple stories can still be new or creative. you can have simple stories that feel new. or at least feel like a new take on an old story,

from spoilers i saw, this movie sounds boring and preachy and cliche story wise ( but with amazing visuals
Click to expand...
I'm not gonna comment on the story until I see the movie, but I was a fan of the first movie and while the story was familiar, I thought the way that it told that familiar story was very (yes) creative and brought something new to that familiar story (which tbh, the familiar part is from American History than a "story").

I've long been looking forward to this movie and it's been little secret over the past decade honestly between DAK's Pandora thread and this one that i'm one of the few living Avatar fans, which is fine. I like the MCU but criticize it constantly and while I expect i'll enjoy this movie, if I feel the script is holding the movie back in any way or just isn't good, then i'll let you guys know my thoughts. The most boring part of the original movie was the Earth scenes, which it sounds like there are none of in this movie along with a confirmed no mention of unobtanium so that's two plusses in my book. James Cameron would have to start paying me to get me to hold my tongue if I don't like something :lol:
 
Last edited: Dec 14, 2022
Disneyhead

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  • Dec 14, 2022
  • #304
www.telegraph.co.uk

Avatar 2 is finally here – and it’s like being waterboarded with turquoise cement

James Cameron’s decade-in-the-making The Way of Water has no plot, no stakes and atrocious dialogue. What happened to this great director?
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
 
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UNIrd

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"Without wishing to sound like an Avatar racist, it also doesn’t help that the Na’vi all look so similar, which means the cast’s distinctive screen personas become lost in the pixelly wash."

This sound bite is hilarious.
 
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Nick

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The Way of Water is tracking to open to $525M worldwide, which would be the sixth highest worldwide opening of all-time.

Other high profile December release comparisons, which have a tendency to play for months are:

Spider-Man: No Way Home - $601M WW
Star Wars: The Force Awakens - $528M WW
Star Wars: The Last Jedi - $450.8M WW
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - $373.5M WW
Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - $290M WW

Aquaman was also successful, but due to a staggered release strategy by WB, it didn’t post a large opening weekend number and is hard to calculate.

All six of those December films have earned at least one billion.



Jeremy Jahns posted his review:
 
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GAcoaster

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  • #307
After seeing all the reviews on here I was convinced this would be the greatest film ever made. Now mainstream reviews are coming out and they're not so glowing. Too long and poor story seem to be the common issues being mentioned. They all say (like the first one) visuals are incredible, but it's got other issues.
 
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TheGentTrent

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  • Dec 14, 2022
  • #308
Yeah, all the reviews seem to be in line with the first film. Phenomenal visual effects, so-so story-telling. If it delivers the goods with the former, then I don’t necessarily see the problem.
 
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Nick

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GAcoaster

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  • Dec 15, 2022
  • #310
Love when the movie studios congratulate themselves
 
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Lucky Planet

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Nick said:
I'm not gonna comment on the story until I see the movie, but I was a fan of the first movie and while the story was familiar, I thought the way that it told that familiar story was very (yes) creative and brought something new to that familiar story (which tbh, the familiar part is from American History than a "story").

I've long been looking forward to this movie and it's been little secret over the past decade honestly between DAK's Pandora thread and this one that i'm one of the few living Avatar fans, which is fine. I like the MCU but criticize it constantly and while I expect i'll enjoy this movie, if I feel the script is holding the movie back in any way or just isn't good, then i'll let you guys know my thoughts. The most boring part of the original movie was the Earth scenes, which it sounds like there are none of in this movie along with a confirmed no mention of unobtanium so that's two plusses in my book. James Cameron would have to start paying me to get me to hold my tongue if I don't like something :lol:
Click to expand...
GAcoaster said:
After seeing all the reviews on here I was convinced this would be the greatest film ever made. Now mainstream reviews are coming out and they're not so glowing. Too long and poor story seem to be the common issues being mentioned. They all say (like the first one) visuals are incredible, but it's got other issues.
Click to expand...

People call James Cameron the king of sequels, so I also expected an incredible amazing sequel here.
It's been a decade, he keeps talking about avatar 4 and 5, there are scenes for Avatar 3 already filmed.

A movie with a soft plot can be carried by amazing acting and visuals, ( blade runner 2049 lol) or by amazing music and score.
The story can be simple if the characters are charming and likable. A charming likable character can literally carry an average movie,

I think that's why I love Alita so much. The plot of alita wasn't anything groundbreaking, but the actors, the city they lived in, the main lead, they were all very wonderful. The city was full of crazy stuff, the characters were pretty incredible to see. Crazy technology people used.

The only bad thing about this new avatar that I can see is the long runtime. That's what ruined %he Batman for me. If the story is simple and thin, you really can't have a long movie.
That's what hurt blade runner 2049 too

People will fall in love with the world and the sea creatures, the new characters seem really nice. There seems to be a strong family element.
It just sounds like it gets boring in the middle
 
Last edited: Dec 15, 2022
MikePat

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Last edited: Dec 15, 2022
youhow2

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In my showing now.

Took a last minute mini road trip and got a last minute ticket to imax at the Airbus theater at the Smithsonian air and space museum in Chantilly.

Seeing this screen, lol. I'm kind of upset I haven't been here before. Theater is relatively full.
 
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OLSinFLA

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Lucky Planet said:
People call James Cameron the king of sequels, so I also expected an incredible amazing sequel here.
It's been a decade, he keeps talking about avatar 4 and 5, there are scenes for Avatar 3 already filmed.

A movie with a soft plot can be carried by amazing acting and visuals, ( blade runner 2049 lol) or by amazing music and score.
The story can be simple if the characters are charming and likable. A charming likable character can literally carry an average movie,

I think that's why I love Alita so much. The plot of alita wasn't anything groundbreaking, but the actors, the city they lived in, the main lead, they were all very wonderful. The city was full of crazy stuff, the characters were pretty incredible to see. Crazy technology people used.

The only bad thing about this new avatar that I can see is the long runtime. That's what ruined %he Batman for me. If the story is simple and thin, you really can't have a long movie.
That's what hurt blade runner 2049 too

People will fall in love with the world and the sea creatures, the new characters seem really nice. There seems to be a strong family element.
It just sounds like it gets boring in the middle
Click to expand...
Avatar 3 is completely filmed. Its Avatar 4 they have films some sequences for,
 
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shiekra38

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James Cameron: *sneezes*

Hollywood: Is this the best moment in cinematic history?
 
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youhow2

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So.

I'm glad I got a chance to see it before it gets too spoiled, and as more critical reviews roll in.


I never thought I'd leave a flick with some kind of emotional attachment to the character arch of a non-speaking cgi fish, yet here we are.


It was a beautiful film about family. The unresolved plot threads I was looking for based on a few reviews... They weren't there for me. The most critical reviews I've read seem to come down to nitpicking. Trust me, I looked for things to critique. The story has been kind of (and I want to stress kind of) done before in the same vein as Avatar 1, except, this focuses on the character development and establishing the quirks of each individual character, and each arch resolves nicely by the end of the film.

Sam Worthington's performance was much better than the first one. Each character was played well by their actors. It was a fine competent story.


The only thing... The ONLY thing I can think of that was even slightly groan worthy in regards to plot was a literal plot armor device and convenient placement in a critical moment of said plot armor fish... But, everything ties into the theme of the film, and the reason for said plot armor fish, is delivered by a main character completing their arch for this film. It makes sense... But, again. Nitpicking, and the film explains it non-verbally, and properly foreshadows this moment's arrival while leaving more room and reason to explore in a sequel. Really, I file this under nitpicking.


The film holds your hand in the first portion to set up the message it is trying to deliver, then in the final hour lets you go to take from it what you will by the ending.

The effects, Some moments were so photorealistic I was awestruck that I *knew* it had to be cgi, but then I kept looking closer at the image trying to see it to be computer generated. I just couldn't tell.


The only negative thing I can say in an earnest critique is it does in fact take some time for your eye to adjust to the frame rate switches, and I expect in a larger format it is harder for your eyes to adjust when it happens rapidly, though, for me, by the end of the film unless I was trying to notice it, I didn't. It does look a bit like a video game or theme park ride at first, but as I relaxed my eyes and eased into it, it went away. Overall, were talking maybe 10-20 seconds out of the entire movie it took for my eyes to adjust, and this stopped happening by the end of the first hour.


Anyways, about the story. It doesn't go as far into the "becoming part of the water tribe trials" like The first one did with Jake Sully becoming part of the tribe. These moments, mostly are replaced with broader, less nuanced character development and family dynamics and drama as they integrate into the water tribe. It shows you the story and gives you the room to feel what it must be like for each character. I can imagine drama being boring for a lot of audiences. It's there, and it takes up most of the film. The film also leans heavily into clichés. The villains are fun, Saturday morning cartoon villains you love to hate. But, It's these cliches that work for this story. I'm also glad they added a bit of humanity and internal conflict for the villain... The final act was SPICY... Albeit, perhaps just a little tad bit undercooked. But man, oh man I'm ready to see with how that conflict transpired, how the characters play out in the next one... Again, just a tad bit undercooked, but I won't be sending it back to the kitchen, It's fine. All it needed was just a small bit of flashback... and quite frankly, now that I think about it the film may have told us exactly what it's setting up for the next one, more or less.


Overall, the first one had a bigger overall impact on me in terms of effects and Jake's individual arch. This one had a bigger emotional effect, had a lot more emotional depth and wow, the cgi is incredible but it's almost like I expected it to be so damn good stemming from the first one. I don't know that I need too many more viewings of this though. It's like a Lord of the Rings marathon... Don't need to do it all the time, and the time commitment is astounding, but you like it enough you'll buy the special edition blu-ray and keep it handy, just incase there is ever a time you want to take a journey... And that's about the highest praise I can give to a film, and giving me a journey is all I can ask of a filmmaker. It's not a film that needs to be seen countless times, but if you thought the first was neat or decent even, it demands at least 1 solid viewing (in 3d of course). I'll be adding this one to my collection.


Avatar: The way of *Vin Diesel Voice* FAMILY!!!


9.5/10 (scored on it's own merits. It's not above the Godfather or anything like that, but as a film it excels in it's story by making you feel for it's characters. Even that one cgi fish.)
 
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Nick

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  • Dec 16, 2022
  • #317
So I saw TWOW last night in 3D/HFR/RTX at the Regal The Loop near Hunters Creek. Their RTX is similar to the Dolby theaters in case you aren't familiar. I'll eventually be seeing it in Dolby and/or IMAX, but all of the good seats for the Dolby theater at AMC and at IMAX were long booked in advance and for weeks to come good seats are tough to come by in the theater. Disney Springs really needs to change one of their other theaters to another Dolby so they can run more premium showings. Anyway...

The fabled Avatar 2 is finally upon us and while I didn't think it was perfect by any means, I thought it was pretty damn good. The three hours never feels like three hours, so that's good. Now i'll just get it out of the way... the main conceit of this movie (which is hard to talk too much about without getting into spoilers) was pretty reminiscent of Avatar 1... at least in part. I think this movie takes many things and improves on it DRASTICALLY however and it sets up actually quite a lot of conflict and unresolved issues going into Avatar 3. Things have changes a lot in this universe and the things that have changed make a big time difference.

CGI and 3D all looked great as you would expect. The frame rate changes were very noticeable when it first happened, and then you settle into it pretty quick although i'm sure everyone is different.

Jack Champion as Spider and Britain Dalton as Lo'ak are absolute standouts in this film, as is Sigourney Weaver as Kiri. The kids are the emotional heart of this film and Jake and Neytiri are the soul. Sam Worthington is probably the least notably of the main cast in terms of a stand out performance, but he does his job as a militant and protective father and surprises with some dry humor every now. He delivered a few lines that had my entire theater laughing. Zoe Saldana is much more in the background in this movie, but shines when given the chance. Kate Winslet delivers one really memorable scene but aside from that has little dialogue. I'll put this in spoilers just in case Stephan Lang was really good as Colonel Miles Quartich in this movie. Far better written too, less cartoon villain and a much more complex villain overall, which I appreciate.

Overall, the movie lived up to what I expected out of it, which was a good time at the movies and a movie that's truly epic in scale. It's also a movie that is heavily about family and the world building in this movie was outstanding. The movie has its issues and things I have questions on, but that's a different discussion since they involve spoilers. This movie and it's associated cliffhangers have me invested in wanting to see Avatar 3, which is a good thing. However, i'm looking for that movie to do something a little bit different with the plot. I do think everything is set up for a very interesting third movie and I hope that he delivers.

I know it's popular to hate on Avatar, but there was A LOT of characters in this movie and Cameron spent the necessary time to get me invested in almost all of the major ones. Much better character development than the first movie. At least give the film the courtesy of seeing it first before blindly crapping all over it.

Quickly - Wasn't too keen on Quartich coming back initially, made the story feel very similar to Avatar, but because he himself now lives on Pandora and he found his son, I think it sets him up as a complex villain going forward. What I absolutely do not want to happen is to see some sort of redemption arc with him after all the killing he's done. I do hope he dies in Avatar 3 or we at least eventually move off of him being the main villain as these movies are gonna get really old really fast if it's just Quartich as the villain for five movies. They've already started softening him up with Spider and and by having his home planet be Pandora instead of Earth. My guess is a bigger threat will come along and he's going to side with the Na'vi to fight against, but what do I know.

Annoying British RDA guy - When this guy died, my entire theater applauded. f that guy lol.

Kiri - Great character, but since I knew going in that Sigourney Weaver was voicing her, all I was hearing was her voice and it was sort of weird. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it did NOT.

Neytiri has to stop listening to Jake. She's done that for two movies and all it's done is lead to death of family members and her own son. Also, speaking of Neytiri, she seems to just freaking despise Spider lol. When she cut his neck, I 100% believed she was going in for the kill because she has shown no love for that kid at all.

Spider/Lo'ak - This kid has major daddy issues that we're gonna see play out likely as a big part of the next movie and he's going to have to choose his path. I'd be surprised if he doesn't go seeking out Quartich and siding with him in 3. Cameron setting up a third movie where Spider and Lo'ak are both going in conflicted/feeling guilt is perfect and I hope the script is as good as it has potential to be. These two are the stars going forward imo. Or at least they should be.
 
Last edited: Dec 16, 2022
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tielo

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Review is in from one of my favorite critics.
 
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Viator

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Thought The Way of Water was really good. In my Top Ten, though due to certain aspects it actually ranks at 8 for my favorite films of the year. It feels very repetitious for what it's worth; and could've been trimmed down by 30-40 minutes...alongside, being a different film (and this really only makes sense with context). This feels like two films in one, and that first film should've been this one, with The Way of Water as the second.

It feels like the start of a trilogy, and for what issues I have are aside, it is a really good film. Sam Worthington gives a hell of a go as Jake Sully, but Sigourney Weaver's preformance of Kiri is just genuinely phenomenal. The kids at the emotional center of the trilogy emobides that sense of the generational gap finally beginning to show root; and I am really interested how this will go for Avatar 3 and 4. Alongside the preformances, this might have my favorite finale battle I've seen in a long time? Outbeating the Avengers Assemble of Endgame, and outbeating other action moments; that last hour felt magic in how Cameron coordinated it altogether.
 
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Nick

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  • #320
AlexanderMBush said:
This feels like two films in one, and that first film should've been this one, with The Way of Water as the second.
Click to expand...
This is a really good take. It was like the first part was a bit of rehashing plot lines from Avatar 1 in more interesting ways, and then the second act is where a decent amount of the 30-40 minutes could've been cut. That part of the film made TWOW feel like it's a soft reboot. Personally, I didn't mind what was in that second act at all as we got to spend a lot of time with the characters and do some really good world building, but there was some scenes where they were definitely just making a showing of how cool the underwater VFX are.

AlexanderMBush said:
Alongside the preformances, this might have my favorite finale battle I've seen in a long time? Outbeating the Avengers Assemble of Endgame, and outbeating other action moments; that last hour felt magic in how Cameron coordinated it altogether.
Click to expand...
I definitely need to see it again but it was an absolutely great final act that left me wanting more. Even as a fan of the original Avatar, I can't say that that film leaves you wanting more necessarily. If another wasn't made, I would've been fine. At the same time, I do really enjoy the world Cameron is building. I wish he would just up the screenplay to where the world building is.

AlexanderMBush said:
It feels like the start of a trilogy, and for what issues I have are aside, it is a really good film. Sam Worthington gives a hell of a go as Jake Sully, but Sigourney Weaver's preformance of Kiri is just genuinely phenomenal. The kids at the emotional center of the trilogy emobides that sense of the generational gap finally beginning to show root; and I am really interested how this will go for Avatar 3 and 4.
Click to expand...
It's hard to say exactly where they'll go for Avatar 3 since they have plans for at least five total, but my money is focusing on Spider and Kiri. There's a lot of Star Wars-isms i'm seeing right now between those two characters. To expand:

Spider is the long lost son of our big bad. Quaritch isn't Vader, but he also is responsible for the death of countless Na'vi so he's not exactly a nice guy (although I do think they are softening him up and setting him up to turn and fight with the Na'vi potentially against a larger evil.

Then Kiri... she's the closest thing to a Jedi Avatar has. She's actually honestly the Jesus figure of the movie. Her birth was a mystery and she has an extremely close relationship with Eywa due to Grace and the ceremony they performed after her death i'm assuming. I think she'll be a very interesting character going forward, especially if they are allowed to do 4 & 5.
 
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