Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

[pumpkinbot343]

Oh yeah I forgot this was the video I was talking about. Hope future entries avert this problem.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Sadly, I think the next year will be kinda inbetween what the MCU should be and what it is now.

I think many films will be better....but doubt most live up to the films people love.

MCU is way and I mean wayyyy too dam focused on pushing characters into stories just because...take Iron heart of of this film and you really lose nothing. Could have switched around the plot to make it work...hell namor was suppose to first show up in the Ethernals...lol

 

[pumpkinbot343]

Sadly, I think the next year will be kinda inbetween what the MCU should be and what it is now.

I think many films will be better....but doubt most live up to the films people love.

MCU is way and I mean wayyyy too dam focused on pushing characters into stories just because...take Iron heart of of this film and you really lose nothing. Could have switched around the plot to make it work...hell namor was suppose to first show up in the Ethernals...lol

In fairness Namor was best set up to appear in a film that’s actually watchable lol.

 

[Jerroddragon]

In fairness Namor was best set up to appear in a film that’s actually watchable lol.

Sure but I think setting up two characters in this film

Along with setting up the next Thunderbolts and maybe even the next Captain America film


I feel like other movies just...worked better even when adding new people. Winter Solder added Falcon to the MCU and even Civil War had Black Panther (and while many will disagree....this is my favorite version of the character we got) but it felt more nature and maybe us now seeing the roadmap and what is being set up takes away from the films...vs just having the film come out and in 5 years being like "cool they set that up years ago"



As for the boxoffice...this film is killing it but also compared to the first film wont make near as much money

 

[Nick]

 

[Brian G.]

I would've thought this would easily crack a billion with all things considered but... it seems just passing by $800 million will be all it can leg out. Never in a million years would I have thought Dr. Strange would be the bigger movie this year (in terms of BO).

 

[Jerroddragon]

I think it goes to show just how.....Phase 4 really killed the hype of the MCU

It has fans still clearly but the hype behind it died with Ironman.

I think while it being smart to be replacing characters...I think its too many as well. Like people love the Hulk...doesn't mean we will love his son...same with Antman....people love Paul Rudd and if they think the daughter will be as interesting...I just doubt it

 

[Nick]

I would've thought this would easily crack a billion with all things considered but... it seems just passing by $800 million will be all it can leg out. Never in a million years would I have thought Dr. Strange would be the bigger movie this year (in terms of BO).

I think what the past few years shows is how big losing China & to some extent Russia have been to Marvel's box office (Russia is actually a lot bigger of a deal for Avatar than Marvel). Obviously studios are simply choosing not to release themselves in Russia because of the ongoing War in Ukraine, so that's a bit different than China. However, the original movie made over $100M in China and close to $19M in Russia, so while even matching those totals wouldn't have put Wakanda Forever over the $1B mark, China sure as hell would have put Multiverse of Madness over the top.

There's actually several $1B grossers in the MCU that wouldn't have made it over the hump without China. Captain Marvel made $1.129B and $153.8M was from China. Civil War made $1.151B and $180.8M was from China. Far From Home made $1.131B and $205.4M came from China. Even Age of Ultron, while it would still be a billion dollar earner, it would've only made around what Civil War made as it made $240.1M in China and would've "only" made around 1.154B.

The main point is, the MCU either has to figure out how to live without China or get back in. Infinity War made $359.5M and Endgame made $629.1M in China, which is almost $1B alone between the two movies. I'm sure Disney would hate to miss out on that kind of money for Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars, but at the same time, would audiences still show up? The MCU that Chinese audiences knew has changed so much in only a few years.

Let's also make no mistake... movies that gross between $750-$950M are no flop. That proves public interest. But much like Avatar 2, there's the case of being successful with the public versus financially successful, which is still fluid for that movie. I'm not sure Thor 4 actually got into the black (the budget for that movie was huge for some reason). Wakanda Forever and Multiverse of Madness are fine.

 

[Brian G.]

I think what the past few years shows is how big losing China & to some extent Russia have been to Marvel's box office (Russia is actually a lot bigger of a deal for Avatar than Marvel). Obviously studios are simply choosing not to release themselves in Russia because of the ongoing War in Ukraine, so that's a bit different than China. However, the original movie made over $100M in China and close to $19M in Russia, so while even matching those totals wouldn't have put Wakanda Forever over the $1B mark, China sure as hell would have put Multiverse of Madness over the top.

There's actually several $1B grossers in the MCU that wouldn't have made it over the hump without China. Captain Marvel made $1.129B and $153.8M was from China. Civil War made $1.151B and $180.8M was from China. Far From Home made $1.131B and $205.4M came from China. Even Age of Ultron, while it would still be a billion dollar earner, it would've only made around what Civil War made as it made $240.1M in China and would've "only" made around 1.154B.

The main point is, the MCU either has to figure out how to live without China or get back in. Infinity War made $359.5M and Endgame made $629.1M in China. which is almost $1B alone between the two movies. I'm sure Disney would hate to miss out on that kind of money for Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars, but at the same time, would audiences still show up? The MCU that Chinese audiences knew has changed so much in only a few years.

Let's also make no mistake... movies that gross between $750-$950M are no flop. That proves public interest. But much like Avatar 2, there's the case of being successful with the public versus financially successful, which is still fluid for that movie. I'm not sure Thor 4 actually got into the black (the budget for that movie was huge for some reason). Wakanda Forever and Multiverse of Madness are fine.

Oh, by no means am I saying this is a failure or anything of the like. Just observing a softer BO, especially considering Dr. Strange did $250m more. There's definitely an issue that I think they're starting to fix behind the scenes.

 

[Nick]

Oh, by no means am I saying this is a failure or anything of the like. Just observing a softer BO, especially considering Dr. Strange did $250m more. There's definitely an issue that I think they're starting to fix behind the scenes.

Part of it is simply that Feige used to be able to keep his eye on all projects and know exactly what was going on. Now with all the Disney+ shows, his focused is divided into so many different places that I think it's actually effecting the end product. I'd love it if they can find a second person to oversee the D+ content and he could just focus on the films.

The other part of that is, I think Feige, when rebuilding after Endgame, wanted to do it in an individual style meaning there's no big thing that's leading into another big thing at the end of different movies. He's undoubtedly heard fan complaints about things not feeling as connected as before. It actually doesn't bother me too much currently. I like the individualistic approach for Phase Four, but if we're going to build to an Avengers film, they need to hit the ground running in Ant-Man 3 and things need to start happening.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Part of it is simply that Feige used to be able to keep his eye on all projects and know exactly what was going on. Now with all the Disney+ shows, his focused is divided into so many different places that I think it's actually effecting the end product. I'd love it if they can find a second person to oversee the D+ content and he could just focus on the films.

The other part of that is, I think Feige, when rebuilding after Endgame, wanted to do it in an individual style meaning there's no big thing that's leading into another big thing at the end of different movies. He's undoubtedly heard fan complaints about things not feeling as connected as before. It actually doesn't bother me too much currently. I like the individualistic approach for Phase Four, but if we're going to build to an Avengers film, they need to hit the ground running in Ant-Man 3 and things need to start happening.

I feel like people would not mind the "story" being this slow if people loved the characters.

When you have a show like She Hulk and from what I can see the highest rated Episode is the one with DD in it....I mean you know your writers just aren't making these new characters likable enough. I liked Miss Marvel but.....her villains were so generic to me it took away from the whole amazing Family they wrote.

In BP, I know people say they love the acting but story wise I guess no one cares because it just didn't have many people going back to it.

Also Phase 4 is the first phase were every film goes to Disney Plus within 2 months.....I mean most people can wait that long for these films. I think it was a mistake not to have a MUST have event this phase, not having an Avengers film until 2025 means it will be 6 years between films.....why? Avengers could team up now and literally the next one could still be fresh, but no they introduced us to many characters this last year....and they may never get the spotlight now.

 

[Nick]

I would've thought this would easily crack a billion with all things considered but... it seems just passing by $800 million will be all it can leg out. Never in a million years would I have thought Dr. Strange would be the bigger movie this year (in terms of BO).

Looking back at this conversation that we had, it seems a bit silly imo. I think we've just become so custom to MCU films cracking $1B that we forget that it's actually a pretty rare feat for any movie with only 51 films cracking the mark all-time. Through Phase 3, the average Worldwide total for an MCU movie was $982M and that's counting two films that have grossed over $2B. Take those films out, and the other 21 average out to $844.8M worldwide.

The lead up to Infinity War and Endgame skyrocketed the box office of some films a bit as fans were excited. This is evidenced by Captain Marvel grossing over $1B before Endgame and honestly, and the weak sauce Far From Home that grossed over $1B.

To think that this film was going to do as well as the first film did was a fool's errand looking back because as John Campea has pointed out, Wakanda Forever was not only missing it's lead actor (due to Chadwick's death), but also it was missing the original film's main character since they did not recast. I don't like to use Campea as a point of reference, but this is a solid point that should've been taken more into account. If RDJ had died after The Avengers came out in 2012 and instead of recasting they chose to use Gwyneth Paltrow's Rescue as the Iron Man replacement, there's no way that film brings in $1.2 Billion. Wakanda Forever performed extraordinarily well for a film that had to go through everything that this one did if we're being honest.

Wakanda Forever is currently at $445M domestic ($827M WW) and will soon pass The Dark Knight Rises to be the 24th highest grossing domestic movie of all-time. It doesn't hit Disney+ until Feb 1 and with the MLK 4-day weekend next, it may have about $10M-$15M left in the tank yet, which could see it pass Age of Ultron domestically if it hits the high end of that spectrum, which would make it the #6 highest grossing domestic MCU film. Quite simply, the movie didn't perform well enough overseas to get to $1B.

 

[Nick]

Wakanda Forever will be getting a release in China after all, just before Ant-Man 3. It will be the first Marvel film since Far From Home to be released in the country.

 

[GA-MBIT]

Wakanda Forever will be getting a release in China after all, just before Ant-Man 3. It will be the first Marvel film since Far From Home to be released in the country.

And they'll have not missed anything plot-wise.

Just kidding, but am I?

 

[Nick]

And they'll have not missed anything plot-wise.

Just kidding, but am I?

I mean, technically you’re right lol. This is the first time we see these characters or go to Wakanda since Endgame.

In that way it does sort of help that most of Phase 4 was self contained

 

[Nick]

 

[ghostsarejerks]

Definitely the best of the post-Endgame MCU movies. Actually has real peril, emotional weight, and great performances. Shame about the box office but I think this entire franchise is going to sputter and die slowly.

 

[Nick]

Definitely the best of the post-Endgame MCU movies. Actually has real peril, emotional weight, and great performances. Shame about the box office but I think this entire franchise is going to sputter and die slowly.

The box office did absolutely FINE! It will finish well over $850M once the China release happens and the expectations for this movie were unreasonably high. When a movie loses its lead actor and lead character, it's not going to do as good as the first movie.

Here's an example for you. Let's say Robert Pattinson died for one reason or another, but they pushed forward with a sequel to The Batman anyway with Catwoman and Batgirl in the lead role. Would you expect a film like that to perform as well as the original did? Probably not, right? I mean, the movie has grossed $453M domestically (7th best in the MCU, 24th best all-time) and only $6M behind Age of Ultron.

It's crazy that $850M is seen as a disappointment. The MCU has been so successful that it's like the conversation seems to be that a movie was a flop if it doesn't make $1B which is WILD.

 

[ghostsarejerks]

The box office did absolutely FINE! It will finish well over $850M once the China release happens and the expectations for this movie were unreasonably high. When a movie loses its lead actor and lead character, it's not going to do as good as the first movie.

Here's an example for you. Let's say Robert Pattinson died for one reason or another, but they pushed forward with a sequel to The Batman anyway with Catwoman and Batgirl in the lead role. Would you expect a film like that to perform as well as the original did? Probably not, right? I mean, the movie has grossed $453M domestically (7th best in the MCU, 24th best all-time) and only $6M behind Age of Ultron.

It's crazy that $850M is seen as a disappointment. The MCU has been so successful that it's like the conversation seems to be that a movie was a flop if it doesn't make $1B which is WILD.

I understand why the box office is lower, I think it's just gonna be harder and harder for MCU entries to get those coveted $1B returns anymore. Not an indictment just an observation.

 

[Nick]

I understand why the box office is lower, I think it's just gonna be harder and harder for MCU entries to get those coveted $1B returns anymore. Not an indictment just an observation.

I don't think I fully expect any of the MCU films to make $1B this year. I do think it's possible that Guardians 3 gets there though. It's kinda harder in general right now for movies to hit $1B though. only The Way of Water, Maverick, and No Way Home have hit it since the beginning of 2020.