Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

[Nick]

I agree with this. While this phase isn’t “bad”, it may be their worst, but this film could save it. The first was just so special, I hope this does justice. Could easily be a billion dollar film

Almost any MCU film has the chance at becoming a billion dollar film, although with China out on most releases now it does hurt things. However if box office in the US is anywhere near where it was last time, international box office may not need to be too large to make a billion.

Black Panther made $700M domestically alone, so i'm going to say the domestic floor for this movie is around $450-$500M.

 

[Brian G.]

So Shuri is definitely Black Panther.

It's certainly strange that they aren't outright connecting it with how obvious it is.

I'm still leaning towards her being BP for a moment and someone else is BP by movie's end.

 

[Nick]

It's certainly strange that they aren't outright connecting it with how obvious it is.

I'm still leaning towards her being BP for a moment and someone else is BP by movie's end.

That's what i'm thinking. Either she decides to voluntarily gives up the title or someone challenges her, etc.

 

[Brian G.]

That's what i'm thinking. Either she decides to voluntarily gives up the title or someone challenges her, etc.

I'm going:

1. M'Baku
2. Nakia
3. Killmonger

 

[HalfGlass]

I'm going:

1. M'Baku
2. Nakia
3. Killmonger

I don’t think they’ll give it to a female protagonist, then take it away and give it to a male, especially within one movie.

I say Nakia if anyone.

 

[Brian G.]

I don’t think they’ll give it to a female protagonist, then take it away and give it to a male, especially within one movie.

I say Nakia if anyone.

Fair. Though I'd argue with the number of female leads they're bringing in Phase 4, they may feel comfortable with doing a one-time exception - especially considering the circumstance.

 

[Brian G.]

Getting interesting now. Regarding Shuri as BP:

Nyong’o: “We love the speculation.”

Gurira: “They’re not getting all of it right!“

Nyong’o : “No, they haven’t guessed it at all.”

 

[AlexanderMBush]

A good question: What if Black Panther becomes more than just one Panther? Who's to say, it can't be Shuri & Nakia? Or, Nakia, Shuri, and M'Baku as a Clan of Panthers? Each represent something different about the title of a Black Panther.

 

[Nick]

So M'Baku is meeting soon at Avengers Campus. I'm trying not to read into that, but at the same time... it's hard for my mind to not read into it

 

[Nick]

Some quick non-spoilery thoughts after getting out of the theater….

Very respectful and powerful in how they handled it, best movie of Phase Four (although NWH is very close), and very interested in seeing where things going from here. Ironheart interest (the series) is now extremely high as well considering Coogler was on board for that show.

 

[rageofthegods]

Spoiler: Spoilers

I am starting to get sick of the mandatory MCU tie-ins. The movie that's clearly positioned as Boseman's send-off and tribute has to pause to introduce Julia Louise Dreyfus again along with some loser named Ironheart.

Tenoch Huerta MVP. Did great in The Forever Purge despite getting a pretty ridiculous role, then gets a movie star performance here.

 

[Nick]

Spoiler: Spoilers

I am starting to get sick of the mandatory MCU tie-ins. The movie that's clearly positioned as Boseman's send-off and tribute has to pause to introduce Julia Louise Dreyfus again along with some loser named Ironheart.

Spoiler

It wasn't an MCU tie-in as far as i'm concerned. They didn't reference anything going on outside of the current movie. I saw it with a bunch of people who don't watch the shows and they loved Riri and had no problem understanding who Val was. They were just characters in a movie. Also, they never even called Riri Ironheart in the movie so it didn't take away from the movie in anyway as far as i'm concerned. There could be no outside universe and it makes complete sense why they went to her and why Val was there in the context of the movie.

 

[Brian G.]

I really enjoyed the film. Felt it was a wonderful tribute to Boseman, especially with that opening credits. You could feel the sadness in our theater.

As far as the film itself, I do have a few highlights and nitpicks:

Spoiler

Highlights:
1. Bassett is Queen. Literally. Absolutely killed it.
2. Namor was great. Sympathetic protector while being a ruthless King. When they let him cook in Wakanda... k: (especially that quick exchange with M'Baku)
3. I liked Thorne as Riri but I could still give a crap about Ironheart.
4. I was skeptical about Shuri, however, she earned every bit by the film's end BUT...

Cons/Nitpicks:

1. She doesn't command a presence as the Black Panther. She had some great moments in the suit but her motivation was fueled more by revenge than protection. By the film's end, it seems to insinuate that she's not going to be Queen which could mean the door is open that she doesn't want to be Black Panther forever, just is for the time being (or just for the battle). Wish that bit was a little more clear.
2. The whole "Who is BP" marketing crap should've been dropped. The trailers made it clear it was going to be Shuri but they still danced around it, leaving fans to let their imaginations run wild. This is the 30th MCU film. Marvel should know better by now about how they've conditioned fans with expectations.
3. Too long. A lot of fat could've been trimmed.

The film also highlights a bigger problem with Phase 4 as it comes to a conclusion with practically nothing of note occuring for the Multiverse Saga. It just plodded along. As a larger part of the MCU, this film doesn't connect to anything else, nor should it. It was right to entirely focus on the story of Boseman and the grief around the characters, but the other MCU films definitely had the ability to do it. Each movie was a "self-contained" story and was resolved by the film's end. As it stands now, the only thing of any consequence was Loki.

 

[belloq87]

I didn't love this, unfortunately. Namor's a great antagonist, and Angela Bassett deserves legitimate Oscar consideration, but I walked into the movie believing they should have recast T'Challa... and I walked out of the movie even more certain they should have.

 

[Nick]

After thinking more on it, I think I was quick to put the movie ahead of NWH as far as phase four movies, although still second favorite. Where it sits in the entirety of the MCU is more middle of the road though.

It was a good movie that ultimately felt like it was missing something, which is what happens when your main character from prior movies is gone.

 

[Bort]

I'd put this as my #2 movie in Phase 4 (behind NWH). There's always going to be a debate on if they should have re-cast T'Challa, but that decision has been made so I only want to judge the film on what it actually presents.

Spoiler: Spoilers

Things I liked

• Could've told you this was coming just from the powerful delivery of her line in the trailer, but Angela Bassett gives a phenomenal performance that should get some award nominations.
• From a visual perspective, this movie is beautiful to look at. The CGI is way better than the final battle in original BP.
• Namor was a strong villain. Similar to Killmonger and Thanos, you can see why he justifies his actions, even if they are dangerous/evil.
• The silent MCU opening credits for Boseman, and the flashes as Shuri sits by the fire at the very end hit me right in the feels.
• The comedic moments fit. It's not as overblown as it became in Love & Thunder.

Things I didn't love

• It takes...a long time to see Black Panther in a Black Panther movie. Especially for it being a nearly 3-hour film.
• I left the movie unsure if Marvel has a plan for most of these characters? Is M'Baku going to take over as "king" since Shuri seems to have left? Maybe that's the internal conflict of the 3rd movie? Or is there going to be some time jump to get the 5-year old involved?
• Shuri just pulls that spear out of her stomach in the final fight and carries on like nothing happened. Like a WWE PPV where finishing moves suddenly do nothing to opponents.

 

[Nick]

I'd put this as my #2 movie in Phase 4 (behind NWH). There's always going to be a debate on if they should have re-cast T'Challa, but that decision has been made so I only want to judge the film on what it actually presents.

Spoiler: Spoilers

Things I liked

• Could've told you this was coming just from the powerful delivery of her line in the trailer, but Angela Bassett gives a phenomenal performance that should get some award nominations.
• From a visual perspective, this movie is beautiful to look at. The CGI is way better than the final battle in original BP.
• Namor was a strong villain. Similar to Killmonger and Thanos, you can see why he justifies his actions, even if they are dangerous/evil.
• The silent MCU opening credits for Boseman, and the flashes as Shuri sits by the fire at the very end hit me right in the feels.
• The comedic moments fit. It's not as overblown as it became in Love & Thunder.

Things I didn't love

• It takes...a long time to see Black Panther in a Black Panther movie. Especially for it being a nearly 3-hour film.
• I left the movie unsure if Marvel has a plan for most of these characters? Is M'Baku going to take over as "king" since Shuri seems to have left? Maybe that's the internal conflict of the 3rd movie? Or is there going to be some time jump to get the 5-year old involved?
• Shuri just pulls that spear out of her stomach in the final fight and carries on like nothing happened. Like a WWE PPV where finishing moves suddenly do nothing to opponents.

Spoiler

They left it open for Sheri to return, but supposedly Letitia Wright had a bad experience with the film and doesnt want to come back, which is why they added the M’baku bit.

Overall, it was a good movie that was overstuffed and probably could’ve been at least a solid 30-40 minutes shorter just by tightening up the story and tbh, cutting out Riri Williams. I’m not against her as a character and I think there’s plenty of interesting ways they could go with her, but I feel like this story could’ve been done without her and then introduced her in the Disney+ series. She felt out of place if I’m being honest.

 

[Jerroddragon]

I dont know why I didn't love this film

But while it has some good moments the pacing for me was all over the place

Ironheart look is very cool but not sure about the character yet
The music was very good
The tone was good.

While this film sets things up I'm excited for....I just dont know if I need to watch this film again anytime soon. If you loved it cool but I just thought like many other projects in thise phase...its just too busy and has too many characters in it

 

[biggerboat16]

I thought it was perfectly ok. I thought Namor was one of the better MCU antagonists, but the film itself was too drawn out. It felt like we were more than halfway through the movie before anything truly substantial began to happen. It also lacked that large, connected scale that was in the first black Panther and in many of the earlier MCU movies. This film felt like it could have easily existed in its own self-contained universe. Not that there weren’t any references to outside events, it could’ve just done a better job at connecting itself to other events in the current MCU. This would’ve made the finale all the more impactful. I also thought that Riri could have been cut altogether. She didn’t add much to the film besides helping out in the finale, and seemed to take some of the attention away from Shuri while inflating that already way too long runtime. They could’ve just saved her for the Disney+ series. Overall this was one of the better movies of phase 4. I liked the character development, the score, and the action, but I wouldn’t call it better than NWH like others that I’ve talked to.

 

[Jerroddragon]

NWH is hard because the film it has so many characters from other films...but to me it worked well and Peter's Journey was the best of any other films he was in for me....so its still my number one MCU film of this phase

But I hope the next Phase is better then this. Like did I enjoy more movies/shows then I hated....yes but like many of the films and tv shows to me are mid tier at best and after Phase 3 which to me only had Ant 2 which I found meh, they need to slow down or Kevin needs a better plan