imo, Ms. Marvel is the best of the group by a country mile as it's the most complete show from beginning to end and imo, feels the mot satisfying. Loki would be the only other show that rivals it imo. I liked Moon Knight and FatWS way more than many other seem too. The Flag Smashers are the main part that drag down FatWS, but the dummy villains drag down pretty much every Disney+ show by design of using C and D tier villains.
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The show's handling of this aspect basically destroyed the entire series for me. Sam's "Don't call them terrorists!" speech at the end -- when the group more than met that standard, having murdered (and attempted to murder) countless civilians -- was so utterly tone-deaf and morally warped that it soured most of my goodwill towards the show. You can have villains with complex motivations, but you don't need the hero to absolve them of their (real) sins.
WANDAVISION entered this territory towards the end, as well, with Monica Rambeau essentially endorsing Wanda's torture of the townspeople.
See I think this is where we disagree a bit. I'm not endorsing the terrorism of it all. What i'm saying is that I felt moved by his speech and felt he was talking more about John Walker/US Agent than anything (i'm a bit fuzzy on it so could be wrong there). At the end of the day, these villains were just a plot device to showcase Sam's journey into accepting the role of Captain America. Sure, that's hollow, but look at almost every Disney+ show. It's a bad trend that they need to figure out how to fix. I grew to like John Walker in an anti-hero kind of a way, which is exactly what they wanted seeing as he's on the Thunderbolts.
There's maybe an exception for Loki on the whole villain thing because it led us to a bit of a complex villain in the finale in He Who Remains, who explains how he's the variant that created the TVA. Loki was ultimately the villain of this series as he broke the sacred timeline that will lead to the other Kang variants going wild.
Moon Knight also was a bit of the same. Marc/Steven/Jake were the real villains. The problem with Moon Knight comes down to being too much fluff. The stuff with the Gods, a lot of unnecessary stuff with Layla imo. Moon Knight would've been perfect as a short Marvel Special Presentation.
My only issue with Loki is that the writers clearly wanted to use the Loki who had gone through all the experiences of all the movies and grown as a character... but because of the time travel stuff, they were forced to use the Loki from THE AVENGERS, who had not yet had that sort of character arc yet. So we got about one episode with the character in proper VILLAIN mode, but then he softened pretty quickly into the version of the character that I'd describe as far more good than evil.
I mostly let that slide because Hiddleston is so enjoyable as any version of the character, and it still feels like the only one of the shows to (eventually) have a major impact on the movies.
I mean, yes, but he was (or should I say Sylvie was) still the reason that the sacred timeline branched, making them a bigger villain in not only the show, but the Multiverse Saga than anyone almost because they're the reason it even happened.
I mean, I put that all on Sylvie. Loki didn't want that to happen, and was pretty freaked out by its implications in the final moments of the last episode.
For all intents and purposes, Hiddleston-Loki is the hero of the show by the end of the season.
For all intents and purposes, Hiddleston-Loki is the hero of the show by the end of the season.
- Jun 27, 2017
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To be fair, no normal person cares about the Flag Smashers issues
At some point you either fight back or you die and they choose to fight and die over just being erased. The council sucks and represents modern day politics of putting the wealthy class over everyone else even if it means pushing them to the streets (and yes in history this happens all the time)
As for the shows the only ones I will rewatch are
Falcon/Winter Soldier I like the themes in it even if the villains need to be fleshed out more and shown what they lost (no just a funeral but show them in the past happy and going better and then everything being taken by them), the fights are cool especially the opening one felt like Ironman 1 style combat, Bucky stuff us cool and John Walker is an interesting "anti hero"
Wanda Vision - Its a fun show and just love the main two actors
Moon Knights - Oscar Isaac just kills it as the two "people" he is playing, the fights are cool and has some brutal moments and the flashing between people is cool...except for the finale episode where they choose to skip too much because....they want a teaser at the end. Besides that I like the show and like how the Villain doesn't just take the power he say's he is unworthy and can respect that...most villains are too disillusion to accept they have done evil in the name of their cause
I'd watch the last episode of Loki and the DD episode of She hulk but overall I don't feel the need to rewatch most of the shows because they are filler or just have such stupid generic villains I can't care to watch again.
Also loveeeeeeee to see Were Wolf By Night so high by critics and fans...because its by far the best MCU we have gotten this phase hands down....doesn't matter its shorter they made the smart choice of making a tight project over filler or trying to introduce us to a 1,000 new side characters
My ranking best to worst
Ms Marvel
Loki
Wandavision first 5 episodes
Shehulk
Werewolf By Night
The Rest
The reasons why I like Ms Marvel the most was it was the one show that didn't feel like it was trying to push something like the others. Loki was really really fun which is why i really liked that one. The rest though I could live without and not feel like I missed out on something.
Ms Marvel
Loki
Wandavision first 5 episodes
Shehulk
Werewolf By Night
The Rest
The reasons why I like Ms Marvel the most was it was the one show that didn't feel like it was trying to push something like the others. Loki was really really fun which is why i really liked that one. The rest though I could live without and not feel like I missed out on something.
- Jun 27, 2017
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read miss marvel first comics then tell me the show story feels good
While I love the family the villains and red scarf organization were just boring so dam boring and really didn’t help miss marvel grow like the way the comic villains make her grow as a person
To me, as a non-comic reader, the comics are the comics and the MCU is it's own thing as well. This isn't the first and won't be the last time that the MCU doesn't adapt something from the comics exact.
But i'd also argue that her show took place over the course over just a few days/weeks. VERY different situation from the comics. Kamala Khan is still new to this and will grow as she moves forward in the MCU and gains experience with her powers. The Marvels takes place directly following the post credits scene of Ms. Marvel so she will continue to grow in The Marvels and then other projects.
Ms. Marvel and Loki are my #1 and 2 as well and they are at the top by a long ways.
- Jun 27, 2017
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I'd just suggest that anyone who loved the Miss Marvel Show...read the comics like Spiderman she works better on the street level fighting vs.....saving the world
I just could not care less about her villains or how the diet shield origination lost to children. The family perfect might be better then the comics Everything else....yeah its pretty meh. I'd say even the Avengers game did a better job with Miss Marvel first outing into become a super hero
I don't think the villains were good either, but I don't watch Marvel shows for the villains. If I did, i'd have very few shows I enjoy. I go in expecting bad villains at this point and just hoping for a solid story surrounding the lead characters. That's what Ms. Marvel was for me.
- Jun 27, 2017
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But why not both?
If the Comic's can do it then so can the MCU. With Kevin in She Hulk, they had zero excuses not to use Miss Marvel villains besides...budget and this is why I'd rather some TV shows become speicals like Were Wolf At Night and just tell a less then 2 hour origin story
Would I love a great villain every show? Sure. But i'd come out disappointed almost every show, so why set myself up for disappointment when I know that they're saving the good villains for movies?
- Jun 27, 2017
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My argument is most of the villains so far have great motives but.....they just aren't fleshing them out
Wanda did become too powerful and killed people, The Flagsmashers deserved to not be moved out and forgotten, The head of the TVT was trying to stop the mutliverse from becoming a thing, MoonKnights bad guy wanted to stop all evil before it could be committed they just didn't try to write them well and focused too much on the main characters....similar to Gorr in Thor
Wanda is one of the most powerful people in all of Marvel comics, her doing that is not unbelievable. The Flagsmashers were just bad. Same with villain in Ms. Marvel. And Hawkeye. Loki was their excuse to start the multiverse and there's a Season 2 for Sylvie to answer to why she pulled it (although I think it's as simple as she was falling in love with 2012 Loki and didn't want to see him die and may not have believed He Who Remains, either). As I argued above though, Sylvie was the villain of the season, just like (in my interpretation), Jake was the villain of Moon Knight.
- Aug 12, 2021
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I don’t really care about Wandavision, the “comedy” elements were just filler. Kang is already one of the most irritating characters of the MCU from his appearance in Loki alone. TFATWS is good. Moon Knight too, though I don’t think I’ll revisit that series. Maybe I’ll give She-Hulk another chance someday.
I don't think we can write the character off just based on that one scene. His variants can (and will, I'm sure) have quite different personalities. We just happened to meet one of the goofier ones first.
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