E3 2021/Summer Games Fest 2021

[Nick]

I still don’t understand Microsoft’s strategy in the long run, and am interested in the long term financial viability of gamepass

That being said I’m interested in it if they ever get Xcloud up and running

Gamepass is pretty much a streaming service, right? What's the longterm viability of Netflix, Disney+, Hulu, Peacock, HBO Max, etc, etc? All of them are in debt and make no money currently. Yet they've convinced people that TWO main things are key:

1.) Subscribers
2.) EXCLUSIVE PREMIUM CONTENT. Aside from building a subscriber base, this is absolutely the main thing. This is what helps to build that subscriber base.

Now will that stuff make Gamepass or literally any streaming service profitable? It's yet to be seen, though for most of them, I have my doubts. But for now, Wall Street is fooled by streaming and is all in on it and thinks way too highly of subscriber numbers.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

Gamepass is pretty much a streaming service, right? What's the longterm viability of Netflix, Disney+, Hulu, Peacock, HBO Max, etc, etc? All of them are in debt and make no money currently. Yet they've convinced people that TWO main things are key:

1.) Subscribers
2.) EXCLUSIVE PREMIUM CONTENT. Aside from building a subscriber base, this is absolutely the main thing. This is what helps to build that subscriber base.

Now will that stuff make Gamepass or literally any streaming service profitable? It's yet to be seen, though for most of them, I have my doubts. But for now, Wall Street is fooled by streaming and is all in on it and thinks way too highly of subscriber numbers.

I think the thing that is the most important; is that Microsoft is seemingly the outlier so-far, to become a "Netflix" like platform for the sake of continuing strong user bases with major "headline" titles. Not just by their first party, but by select parties.

I almost wonder if Like a Dragon is a test; as SEGA has said that they have a very positive reception towards Game Pass, with the amount of people (like myself), coming to the Yakuza series. I almost wonder if like EAPlay, SEGA might be a partner Microsoft is looking to bring games from SEGA's library onto XBOX Game Pass.

 

[JungleSkip]

Gamepass is pretty much a streaming service, right? What's the longterm viability of Netflix, Disney+, Hulu, Peacock, HBO Max, etc, etc? All of them are in debt and make no money currently. Yet they've convinced people that TWO main things are key:

1.) Subscribers
2.) EXCLUSIVE PREMIUM CONTENT. Aside from building a subscriber base, this is absolutely the main thing. This is what helps to build that subscriber base.

Now will that stuff make Gamepass or literally any streaming service profitable? It's yet to be seen, though for most of them, I have my doubts. But for now, Wall Street is fooled by streaming and is all in on it and thinks way too highly of subscriber numbers.

I understand “the goal”, I just don’t understand how GamePass’s business model is viable long term.

1) GamePass charges subscribers as much as normal streaming services but with a product (games) that are exponentially more expensive to produce. Not to mention I can’t imagine how much cash they’re burning through to get third parties to agree to forgo sales in favor of going to GamePass

2) But does GamePass have any exclusive content? I’d argue it doesn’t. Sure Microsoft has “exclusives”, but you can still get them off GamePass.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

I understand “the goal”, I just don’t understand how GamePass’s business model is viable long term.

1) GamePass charges subscribers as much as normal streaming services but with a product (games) that are exponentially more expensive to produce. Not to mention I can’t imagine how much cash they’re burning through to get third parties to agree to forgo sales in favor of going to GamePass

2) But does GamePass have any exclusive content? I’d argue it doesn’t. Sure Microsoft has “exclusives”, but you can still get them off GamePass.

Not a lot of groups in entertainment can realistically justify that of a streaming service..except for trillion dollar companies, like Microsoft.

The benefit that Microsoft has as opposed to platforms like Luna, Stadia, and GeforceNow, lies in that a genuine "Netflix" like service, one that will eventually bring cloud based, can be as easily accessible as downloading an app on a phone, tablet, or a TV stick. The risks that Microsoft has to deal with; are a problem, but I see XBOX adopting to become a gaming "Brand" that focuses on Hardware physically and digitally, to attract users to join on the service. It's why I think Gold is going to be phased out in a few years down the line, because Game Pass is going to be that of a future for Microsoft in the gaming market.

 

[quinnmac000]

The logic is that Microsoft doesn't want people actually buying the games. Why do you think they got rid of Microsoft office being standalone and turned it into a subscription service? Monthy/annual pay fee is greater than selling the software one time.

Upfront, yea they will suffer some loss due to the limited appeal (outside of Forza and Fallout, i'm not really into any games that are Xbox/Bethsheda/Microsoft) but they are hoping for the long game.

The issue I think is gamers are way more sentimental and love having physical copies of games and owning games. So this will backfire because Microsoft executives don't understand the minds of the consumers they are targeting.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

The issue I think is gamers are way more sentimental and love having physical copies of games and owning games. So this will backfire because Microsoft executives don't understand the minds of the consumers they are targeting.

Counter-argument to that, and this is a more pressing counter-argument. If you are looking to join Game Pass, you are seeking that of the digital catelogue plus, once it is fully operational (even with faults)--the ability to pick up and play a game from virtually anywhere. I think there is a legitimate loss that will be taken into account on the financial costs of maintaining the third party roster that they currently have, but with more and more of technology and consumption of media being done through digital methods; that it's only sensical that there is going to be a shift to digital markets. Especially, once xCloud and Game Pass hits tech devices like tablets and TV sticks.

It's as you said--they are looking at the long game. And that doesn't necessarily mean physical copies will die out.

 

[quinnmac000]

Counter-argument to that, and this is a more pressing counter-argument. If you are looking to join Game Pass, you are seeking that of the digital catelogue plus, once it is fully operational (even with faults)--the ability to pick up and play a game from virtually anywhere. I think there is a legitimate loss that will be taken into account on the financial costs of maintaining the third party roster that they currently have, but with more and more of technology and consumption of media being done through digital methods; that it's only sensical that there is going to be a shift to digital markets. Especially, once xCloud and Game Pass hits tech devices like tablets and TV sticks.

It's as you said--they are looking at the long game. And that doesn't necessarily mean physical copies will die out.

Its the third party games that will be an issue. What happens when a third party game gets removed from game pass while you are playing it as it will happen, due to the third party not wanting to license to Microsoft anymore? Its similar to the issue with film/television streaming where one week a third party program was on a service and then you go to watch it and its gone. Thus making people want to own games even if they can't pay it anywhere.

Secondly, because now to play any game you will require internet access and I'm guessing the saves won't be local but cloud based, there are even more factors that negatively impact consumers. Streaming netflix on my phone is fine while I have actual unlimited data that doesn't throttle once it hits a certain point. Game streaming takes way more data so those who get hit with power outages and have to deal with data caps are being heavily screwed over.

According to Google, streaming a 1080p game using Stadia uses up to 20 GB per hour. Play 4 hours you are at 80 GB.

I would rather own a game sit through that long 100 GB download wait one time and be able to play without worrying how much data I'm consuming.

 

[JungleSkip]

Monthy/annual pay fee is greater than selling the software one time.

Microsoft Office is a suite of like 12 programs, not dozens upon dozens of video games that Microsoft will either be developing or shelling out what I have to assume are millions to third parties to get the games on the service. Gamepass is 15 dollars a month. It would take 4 months for Gamepass to equal what someone would spend on a physical game. One game.

I dunno. I hope it works out for them, but I don't see how it's long term viable without setting massive amounts of money on fire.

 

[HalfGlass]

I will say this - I always knew I wanted a PS5, but I was apprehensive to buy a Series X when it became available. I pulled the trigger and got one and wondered if I was rash due to the lack of exclusives. All my Xbox One games run incredibly, but I questioned if I wasted money knowing I would be getting a PS5.

Today’s presentation made me realize it was not a mistake. Bethesda being acquired and releasing Starfield is enough reason alone, but it seems like Microsoft was a just a little slow out the gate, not dead.

 

[Tristan]

I'm not that good very good at math, but let's say that by the end of the year there are 25 million gamepass subscribers. We'll say that 3 million are paying 15 for Ultimate while the other 22 are paying 10 for the normal one. That's like 265 million dollars a month from that service alone. That sounds like a lot of money and seems profitable, but I'm guessing that each third-party game ranges anywhere from 1-10 million for each title.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

I'm not that good very good at math, but let's say that by the end of the year there are 25 million gamepass subscribers. We'll say that 3 million are paying 15 for Ultimate while the other 22 are paying 10 for the normal one. That's like 265 million dollars a month from that service alone. That sounds like a lot of money and seems profitable, but I'm guessing that each third-party game ranges anywhere from 1-10 million for each title.

I'd have to assume in cases to where it's EA Play--to where it's a collection of games, it is all part of it's own package. That said, that's not a bad guesstimation. The question, comes when XBOX brings more tiers for xCloud, and how profitability for the cloud-based aspect works.

__

To speak of a game that kind of immediately caught my attention, was Atomic Heart. It feels like a mix of Kojima weirdness with stuff you'd find from SCP (which, doesn't entirely feel far off from this); resulting in a mindbending and fascinating title to me. I hope we get more info on this one soon.

 

[Legacy]

That being said I’m interested in it if they ever get Xcloud up and running

I’m in the beta on iOS devices and it works, especially when you’re on a decent wifi network and using a controller. Touch over cellular has pretty noticeable lag, but if you’re playing a game where you can control the pace (like Slay the Spire or Monster Train) it’s serviceable.

 

[Tristan]

I'd have to assume in cases to where it's EA Play--to where it's a collection of games, it is all part of it's own package. That said, that's not a bad guesstimation. The question, comes when XBOX brings more tiers for xCloud, and how profitability for the cloud-based aspect works.

__

To speak of a game that kind of immediately caught my attention, was Atomic Heart. It feels like a mix of Kojima weirdness with stuff you'd find from SCP (which, doesn't entirely feel far off from this); resulting in a mindbending and fascinating title to me. I hope we get more info on this one soon.

Yeah that one looked super cool. I loved the design of the robots or whatever they'll end up calling em'

 

[JungleSkip]

I’m in the beta on iOS devices and it works, especially when you’re on a decent wifi network and using a controller. Touch over cellular has pretty noticeable lag, but if you’re playing a game where you can control the pace (like Slay the Spire or Monster Train) it’s serviceable.

Yea I’m going to try it out on my Surface once it’s out of Beta.

 

[rhino4evr]

I love my ps5, been paying through RIFT Apart this weekend and was really impressed by the graphics and presentation. It's a true "next gen" title.

I was able to get a ps5 by signing up or Twitter alerts on several Twitter handles that announce stock updates. I was able to get one on my first try. Possibly I got lucky, but if you are notified and ready when these consoles go on sale, then you should be able to get one like I did.

 

[Nick]

Just wanted to give some quick commentary on this BS - Maybe this is good (although based on The Avengers, i'm not counting on it), but I have one main thing I take issue with an that's the character look. If you're going to do an Avengers or GotG Game, fine. Do it and blow me away. But CUT THE CRAP when it comes to doing rip-off versions of the MCU character likenesses. Either get the MCU actors or do something completely original looking animation wise because this is stupid, just like it was with The Avengers game.

 

[Tristan]

Just wanted to give some quick commentary on this BS - Maybe this is good (although based on The Avengers, i'm not counting on it), but I have one main thing I take issue with an that's the character look. If you're going to do an Avengers or GotG Game, fine. Do it and blow me away. But CUT THE CRAP when it comes to doing rip-off versions of the MCU character likenesses. Either get the MCU actors or do something completely original looking animation wise because this is stupid, just like it was with The Avengers game.

Yeah my main problem is the character design. None of the characters ever fully commit to being entirely original or based on the comics or based on the MCU.

 

[chris.g]

E3 this year reallllly sucking. Super low expectations for Nintendo tomorrow and they've already won without showing anything. Capcom's presentation was literally stuff we knew about or things they've been consistent with, as was Square's boring disappointment of a presentation. Dont eff it up tomorrow Nintendo! Just a full BOTW 2 trailer and you won!

 

[SailwiththeTide]

Just wanted to give some quick commentary on this BS - Maybe this is good (although based on The Avengers, i'm not counting on it), but I have one main thing I take issue with an that's the character look. If you're going to do an Avengers or GotG Game, fine. Do it and blow me away. But CUT THE CRAP when it comes to doing rip-off versions of the MCU character likenesses. Either get the MCU actors or do something completely original looking animation wise because this is stupid, just like it was with The Avengers game.

Rocket sounds like Peter Parker doing an impression of Rocket.

 

[Jerroddragon]

So there are a few cool games we know about before..Atomic Heart...Halo new MP and so on. But yeah its a boring year for "new" games and really doubt Nintendo is giving us new bet its all games they have talked about before Spatoon 3, Pokemon, small zelda update and maybe Baynetta 3 (I know it had issues but its a like 10-15 hour action game that isnt open world..should be ready to go unlike Metriod)

I'm glad Halo has become something quick and love the battlepasses don't Expire and hope more Devs do this because its literally leaving money on the table and super consumer friendly