General Movies & TV Thread

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

The joke was tasteless, but could’ve been handled backstage is my take. Will doing that live on tv in front of millions is embarrassing.

 

[Allison]

I'm in no way defending the joke. If what you say is true then it was tasteless/poorly judged.
But the whole world now knows about her condition because of Will's actions, not because of the joke.

I do wonder how people would feel if it had been someone other than Rock that made the joke, would a female comedian have everyone on her side or would people think she should apologise despite being assaulted. It all makes me very uncomfortable.

We do not know what he does or doesn't know

I had no Idea of her condition and most people seem to be in the same boat.

Second assaulting someone just is not in the same camp as a Joke, it's why you can't press charges or go to jail for jokes. Lastly Smith went on a 180 here, he was laughing until he saw his wife. Then decided to and hit someone and then yelling as if acting like a child who didn't get what he wants makes him the bigger man.

Will Smith and Chris Rock have a history that predates the Oscars slap | CNN

Chris Rock's comments during Sunday night's Academy Awards didn't mark the first time the comedian had joked about Jada Pinkett Smith, but it may have been his last.

www.cnn.com

Jada Pinkett Smith Has Been Open About Her Alopecia — Here's What She's Said About Hair Loss

Jada Pinkett Smith's husband, Oscar winner Will Smith, 'smacked' presenter Chris Rock during the 2022 Academy Awards ceremony after the comedian cracked a joke about her hair — here's why the dig was so personal to the actor and his wife

people.com

Also, with cameras on you 24/7 at an event like that, notice everyone was smiling the entire night until that happened. I know I nervously smile and laugh at times, doesn’t make what’s happening any less impactful.

If it was a woman telling the joke I’d hope she’d also apologize if she saw her target was hurt by said joke. Much like Amy Schumer clarifying the Kirsten Dunst joke, which was handled in a less toxic way.

When you make a joke at someone else’s expense you don’t get to decide how well or unwell your joke will be received by the person on the other end.

Edit: this is a terrific read…

The Two Americas Debating Will Smith and Chris Rock

Black people and white people aren’t necessarily discussing the Oscars slap in the same way.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Nick]

Someone got assaulted based on WORDS, not even actions, and we're to defend Will on this? Chris Rock's joke wasn't funny but also like... GI Jane is a badass. And Jada looks great and i'm glad she's speaking out for Alopecia. She got triggered by his joke (which again wasn't funny, but imo, it was also a harmless joke that was fairly tame).

Rock didn't even have the most insulting jokes of the night by a long shot.

Some of the recent winners alone have done even more disgraceful things than what Will did (Casey Affleck, Jared Leto).

Also, where’s Chris Rock’s apology to Jada??

This is crazy town stuff imo. Let's say that was one of the female host the three female hosts that joke and Will did the same thing. Would you be saying "where's the apology from Schumer/Sykes/Hall even though they just got physically abused by a man who was then not even handled by police and escorted out of the building, but allowed to stay

There actually was an open marriage joke earlier in the show, which may have put them on edge. I thought that joke and the "COVID pat down" were WAY more offensive than what Rock said. If a male even thought of patting down a woman live on TV they'd be getting canceled live on Twitter.
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The other thing Will did was give the green light to audience members at comedy clubs across the world to just go and run up on stage and physically assault a comedian if you're in the front row and are probably heckling, probing for the comedian to dig in to you so you could justify slapping someone.

 

[Allison]

Someone got assaulted based on WORDS, not even actions, and we're to defend Will on this? Chris Rock's joke wasn't funny but also like... GI Jane is a badass. And Jada looks great and i'm glad she's speaking out for Alopecia. She got triggered by his joke (which again wasn't funny, but imo, it was also a harmless joke that was fairly tame).

Rock didn't even have the most insulting jokes of the night by a long shot.


This is crazy town stuff imo. Let's say that was one of the female host the three female hosts that joke and Will did the same thing. Would you be saying "where's the apology from Schumer/Sykes/Hall even though they just got physically abused by a man who was then not even handled by police and escorted out of the building, but allowed to stay

There actually was an open marriage joke earlier in the show, which may have put them on edge. I thought that joke and the "COVID pat down" were WAY more offensive than what Rock said. If a male even thought of patting down a woman live on TV they'd be getting canceled live on Twitter.
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The other thing Will did was give the green light to audience members at comedy clubs across the world to just go and run up on stage and physically assault a comedian if you're in the front row and are probably heckling, probing for the comedian to dig in to you so you could justify slapping someone.

Honestly, jokes aren’t always all that harmless which we witnessed the aftermath of in real time. You don’t get to make a joke at someone else’s expense and dictate their response to it. Chris Rock of all people (after making a documentary on the subject) know how sensitive a topic black women’s hair is, and to weaponize it against someone who’s already struggling was a low blow. While this is nowhere near as close to the worst thing to ever happen at the Oscars, it clearly effected Jada and I feel sorry she had to deal with all of that.

 

[Legacy]

If a comedian’s entire schtick is making pointed insults about the appearance of people in the audience then, unless every person in the audience actively knew and accepted that schtick was coming, then yeah, the comedy should be concerned about repercussions. That’s why insult comedy is rare.

Comedians, also, should never “punch down.” Most comedians know that. They know there are some jokes you shouldn’t make. Men, in general, shouldn’t joke about women. White people, shouldn’t joke about minorities. Frankly, a joke about Pinkett Smith feels like a major punch down as she wasn’t even the 200th most famous person in the room. If she wasn’t Will Smith’s wife, she wouldn’t have been in the front row. Would Rock had joked about her then?

I know my perspective on a slap is pretty skewed. I’m in the military so I very much believe that, though violence should be avoided, there is such thing as justified violence. While Smith was in the wrong that, in no way, absolves Rock of instigating it with a joke he shouldn’t have said.

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

The issue to me is....

Chris likely know of Jada’s issue, and didn’t care to NOT address it, instead used it as a light joke.... which to me was tasteless.

That then inspired a mentally ill man, to irrationally respond to him, in a high pressure situation, which he handled poorly.

Was crap all around, if you ask me.

 

[Nick]

I respect that you are bringing examples (although. these aren't new to me), but let's break this down, because what i'm talking about as a whole is more than just the slap. So let's break this down.

John Wayne had to be held back by six security guards to keep him from attacking a woman who was critical of Hollywood’s treatment of indigenous people.

There’s Hattie McDaniel not being allowed to sit with the cast of Gone With the Wind, despite being nominated, because she was Black.

Both of these heavily involved race, which is despicable. Race or ethnicity was actually at the core of the problem. This is terrible, especially imo in Hattie McDaniel's case.

But we're also talking about 1939 (12th Oscars) and 1972 (45th). The Civil Rights Act was signed only years early in 1964 with a follow up adding some things in 1968. But just because that was signed into law on July 2nd, 1964, doesn't mean that people stopped being racist. If anything it may have motivated some to be more like that and thus, these things that happened, while terrible, are an unfortunate sign of the times.

There’s Roman Polanski’s win (and subsequent standing ovation).

I agree this was is weird and shouldn't have happened considering what he did. It would be like Harvey Weinstein eventually returning to the scene somehow and winning one. However, these awards aren't handed out because you're a good person. They hand them out because the Directors Voting Body agreed that his directorial work on this film deserved best director. Plain and simple. The BBC even put this film on their top 100 of the 21st century as recently as 2016.

There have been more disgraceful moments at the Oscars. In five years, this will hardly be a footnote.

There have been moments that compete with this and the Hattie McDaniels moment will always be a major stain, along with Wayne having to be held back from hitting a woman because of her simply being Native American.

However, John Wayne didn't hit anyone. Got held back, didn't hit anyone.

Will Smith went up and actually smacked a man on live television, calmly went back to his seat as if nothing happened, was allowed to stay in his seat, won Best Actor (which I don't think he should be stripped of anymore as he earned it), got applause for it, and was allowed to give a speech about love 18 minutes after slapping someone. And he gave the speech as if he WAS King Richard in that moment he stormed the stage, which made it even weirder.




And there's no way this is forgotten in five years. This is gonna be a huge meme and it's something people will think of every Oscars.

 

[Legacy]

We’ll agree to disagree. A slap is nothing. A slap is, basically, a physical warning. Slaps do almost no physical damage, but deliver the message of, “I am ready, and able, to rock your world.”

Smith didn’t punch him. There was no blood or injuries. Rock was able to continue his segment. If he had, THEN this would have been a completely different situation.

 

[Nick]

The issue to me is....

Chris likely know of Jada’s issue, and didn’t care to NOT address it, instead used it as a light joke.... which to me was tasteless.

That then inspired a mentally ill man, to irrationally respond to him, in a high pressure situation, which he handled poorly.

Was crap all around, if you ask me.

Chris says he didn't, but I just find it hard to believe. I'm not trying to absolve Chris of wrongdoing as supposedly the joke wasn't scripted and he went rogue. I just feel that there's more blame on Will, but as you stated, he's clearly not a man in a good mental place and I think he's been spiraling since the "entanglement".

It is most definitely crap all around, but I just think this wasn't even close to the most offensive joke all night, BUT it was aimed at the wrong person/people.

The Covid pat down, Jennifer Lawrence weight gain joke, The Smith's open marriage joke, etc were all worse than what Rock delivered in terms of barking at the wrong tree and it didn't help that Rock delivered the joke within running distance of Will AFTER the open marriage joke earlier in the show. I think Will was at his boiling point.

We’ll agree to disagree. A slap is nothing. A slap is, basically, a physical warning. Slaps do almost no physical damage, but deliver the message of, “I am ready, and able, to rock your world.”

Smith didn’t punch him. There was no blood or injuries. Rock was able to continue his segment. If he had, THEN this would have been a completely different situation.

I agree that a slap is nothing more than a warning, it doesn't mean you DO IT though is my point. I do think Will is in a really rough place though right now I think he's unstable since the Red Table "Entanglement" reveal.

 

[Jerroddragon]

We’ll agree to disagree. A slap is nothing. A slap is, basically, a physical warning. Slaps do almost no physical damage, but deliver the message of, “I am ready, and able, to rock your world.”

Smith didn’t punch him. There was no blood or injuries. Rock was able to continue his segment. If he had, THEN this would have been a completely different situation.

This is the wrong attitude


YOU DO NOT TOUCH OTHERS, unless your in danger. Period. You do not have the right to strike other's for words. Will could have chosen not to sit in the front if he was sensitive about, if he can assault someone then I'm sure they could have moved him to a more private area if he didn't want attention.
But your take is why people are scared Comedians are in danger now, you think its alright to just smack anyone

 

[Legacy]

This is the wrong attitude


YOU DO NOT TOUCH OTHERS, unless your in danger. Period. You do not have the right to strike other's for words. Will could have chosen not to sit in the front if he was sensitive about, if he can assault someone then I'm sure they could have moved him to a more private area if he didn't want attention.
But your take is why people are scared Comedians are in danger now, you think its alright to just smack anyone

Again. I’m military. Out whole thing is justified violence. Sometimes violence is the answer.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Again. I’m military. Out whole thing is justified violence. Sometimes violence is the answer.

Wow, words literal words are cause for violence

Such a bad take, if your first course of action with an insult is putting your hands on somone else they already won. Shows how stupid the person is who can't form words better then the person making the joke. But cool to know some people are just one joke away from hitting another person

 

[Legacy]

Wow, words literal words are cause for violence

Such a bad take, if your first course of action with an insult is putting your hands on somone else they already won. Shows how stupid the person is who can't form words better then the person making the joke. But cool to know some people are just one joke away from hitting another person

Where did I say Smith was justified? Where did I say you should hit someone over a joke? People are acting like “violence over words” is a binary dichotomy within the vacuum of the Oscars when it’s not. I can say Smith handled this the wrong and still believe violence can be justified in other scenarios. I can say Rock should not have been slapped but still believe he’s bears some fault.

The world is more nuanced than a bad joke and resultant slap on an awards show.

 

[Nick]

Honestly, jokes aren’t always all that harmless which we witnessed the aftermath of in real time. You don’t get to make a joke at someone else’s expense and dictate their response to it. Chris Rock of all people (after making a documentary on the subject) know how sensitive a topic black women’s hair is, and to weaponize it against someone who’s already struggling was a low blow. While this is nowhere near as close to the worst thing to ever happen at the Oscars, it clearly effected Jada and I feel sorry she had to deal with all of that.

I don't disagree that words can hurt, I just don't think theres reason to turn to violence as the answer to that. I don't think this is what Jada honestly wanted, tbh.

I'm not a woman, let alone a black woman, so I can't pretend to know how hard it is or even what it's like as a celebrity and having to live with people joking on you a lot, but 99.9% of the time in Hollywood, they try to act civil for the cameras and talk it out or handle whatever they gotta handle backstage. Rarely ever do we see celebs slapping people because their egos were hurt over a joke.

My main stance on this is if Rock knew about Jada's Alopecia (he claims to not have known, but I find that hard to believe) is that Will could've and should've handled this with Rock backstage. The fact that he couldn't help himself tells me that he's a very hurt person that is going through stuff causing his impulsive behavior. The mood swings we saw were drastic, too. From laughter, to impulsive anger, to crying, etc all in a short time span. And then, eventually, "Gettin' Jiggy Wit It"...

The world is more nuanced than a bad joke and resultant slap on an awards show.

Nuance is key and it's something i'm not doing the best job at through text on this incredibly nuanced subject. Both of them were wrong, I think that needs to be said from my opinion. But just because Rock is wrong (as I believe he knew about Jada's alopecia) doesn't mean that Will's response wasn't worse. It may have been hurtful, but there's way better ways that could've been handled.

 

[Nick]

I highly encourage everyone to at least read Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's article. His article is pretty much where I stand. He was selfish and worst of everything, now, no one remembers anything from these Oscars except "The Slap".

Worst even is the timing. Black men have a bad, racial stigma held against them and then in this instance you have one black man who jokes on a black woman and then the husband of the woman decides to involve himself. The second black man decides to be selfish and put the attention on him by slapping the first black man, combining to hurt a THIRD black man's (Questlove) big moment for his accomplishment on Summer of Soul, which is about African-American pride and unity.

It's just such a shame how it plays into all the stereotypes and it also ruined Questlove's great and moving speech that no one will ever remember because it came mere minutes after the slap heard around the world.

Will Smith Did a Bad, Bad Thing

Slapping Chris Rock was also a blow to men, women, the entertainment industry, and the Black community.

kareem.substack.com

 

[Allison]

I highly encourage everyone to at least read Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's article. Both his article and Jim Carrey's are pretty much where I stand. He was selfish and worst of everything, now, no one remembers anything from these Oscars except "The Slap".

Worst even is the timing. Black men have a bad, racial stigma held against them and then in this instance you have one black man who jokes on a second black man. The second black man decides to be selfish and put the attention on him by slapping the first black man, combining to hurt a THIRD black man's (Questlove) big moment for his accomplishment on Summer of Soul, which is about African-American pride and unity.

Will Smith Did a Bad, Bad Thing

Slapping Chris Rock was also a blow to men, women, the entertainment industry, and the Black community.

kareem.substack.com

... but also, Jim Carrey came out and said “I was sickened by the standing ovation,” and “I felt like Hollywood is just spineless en masse.” Carrey also mentions Smith should have been removed immediately and that “I’d have announced this morning that I was suing Will for $200 million,” Carrey said. “That video is gonna be there forever. It’s gonna be ubiquitous. You know, that insult is gonna last a very long time.”

“You do not have the right to ... smack somebody in the face because they said words,” Carrey continued, adding that it was “a selfish moment that cast a pall over the whole thing.”

Jim Carrey Slams ‘Spineless’ Oscars Audience for Will Smith Standing Ovation: ‘I Was Sickened’

Jim Carrey said he was "sickened" by Hollywood after it gave Will Smith a standing ovation for his best actor win.

variety.com

I wonder if Jim Carrey was also sickened by his own actions when he went on stage in the 90’s and SA-ed a 19 year old Alicia Silverstone too though.

 

[Nick]

I wonder if Jim Carrey was also sickened by his own actions when he went on stage in the 90’s and SA-ed a 19 year old Alicia Silverstone too though.

That's bad and hard to watch so forget what Jim Carrey said. I'll remove it from my post. That doesn't take away that I believe he is absolutely correct for the audience applauding him like they did and ABC for allowing him over 5 minutes for a thank you speech, which has to be either the longest or one of the longest speeches ever for the award.

But please at least pay attention to what Kareem said.

HOWEVER, I still don't see how it's okay to do a "COVID pat down", either, especially since all woman would be rightfully smacking any man who tried to do that to them, skit or not. And if we want to jump back to the '90's, here's Will Smith on Arsenio making a joke about a man with alopecia.

 

[Nick]

This is a story that will develop and develop all week, I think.

 

[Allison]

That's bad and hard to watch so forget what Jim Carrey said. I'll remove it from my post. That doesn't take away that I believe he is absolutely correct for the audience applauding him like they did and ABC for allowing him over 5 minutes for a thank you speech, which has to be either the longest or one of the longest speeches ever for the award.

But please at least pay attention to what Kareem said.

HOWEVER, I still don't see how it's okay to do a "COVID pat down", either, especially since all woman would be rightfully smacking any man who tried to do that to them, skit or not. And if we want to jump back to the '90's, here's Will Smith on Arsenio making a joke about a man with alopecia.

IMO, it was worse seeing how the audience applauded Roman Polanski after his win. What Will did, in the grand scheme of things when looking at the history of the Academy, was not as bad as some people are making it out to be.

The whole situation was wrong but the dismissing of the bigger picture just to clutch pearls over a slap between 2 millionaires with beef feels even worse.

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

It took me until this morning to realize I didn’t actually know who won best picture because this is so huge.