Halloween Horror Nights 2021 (USH) - News & Info

[HHNManics]

Sorry if this is too far off-topic but I’m curious because it keeps popping up — when people say they want to see a HHN Hollywood “reboot,” what do they mean by that, exactly? It’s kind of a vague term that could mean any number of things. What, specifically, needs to be “rebooted,” and I think more importantly, how do you “reboot” things?

I personally feel like “reboot” is just a codeword for “Fire Murdy,” which, tbh, I don’t think people actually want as much as they think they do. I’m all for new visions but you wanna talk about a “Pandora’s box” . . .

More people Working on the Event/Team than just Murdy - Murdy is great when he cares about a maze which becomes a passion project but other mazes end up suffering because of it. Orlando benefits from having different designers on each project so each maze is a passion project for someone.

New Effects/Ideas - We see so many effects in mazes that are recycled over and over again. How about some new ones? Bungee Scares? Scares from above? Projection Mapping? Rain Effects (Like Orlando does)? Duck Spaces? Guest Activates Triggers? Multiple paths? Hollywood has become extremely stale by reusing over and over again.

More Care to Scare Zones - Flame Towers is a big one which has a lot of energy to the event. But Orlando and Knotts do these cool shows in their Scare Zones like moments that just happen and it immerses you in and I want to see Hollywood start doing that.

More Shows - Bringing back Jabbawockeez doesn't count and just changing 1 or 2 songs. Let's see more shows especially ones as epic and fun as the ones at Knotts and HHN Orlando.

Open up Hogwarts - Definitely needs to happen soon. Could take more people in and spread the event out more. Also could have Dark Arts!

Make the Event Less Sensitive - There was a time when Hollywood didn't care and did something as brutal as Hostel and did in it's full brutality. And then also Chucky Insult Emporium. Hollywood over the years has slowly gotten softer to complaints. I wanna see hardcore gore and stuff at a Horror event that's why I go. The event should be more suited for mature audiences which Knotts and HHN Orlando are and they excell because of it.

Just a couple of things that aren't just no more Black Walls which is something that does need to be fixed though.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

Sorry if this is too far off-topic but I’m curious because it keeps popping up — when people say they want to see a HHN Hollywood “reboot,” what do they mean by that, exactly? It’s kind of a vague term that could mean any number of things. What, specifically, needs to be “rebooted,” and I think more importantly, how do you “reboot” things?

I personally feel like “reboot” is just a codeword for “Fire Murdy,” which, tbh, I don’t think people actually want as much as they think they do. I’m all for new visions but you wanna talk about a “Pandora’s box” . . .

The event needs a creative "Reset". It needs a new vision, a new focus on quality over that of the quantity of content, and to start balancing out the amount of IP's. Does that mean I want Murdy gone? I think his importance and reverence for HHN, is great. But with him moved to the EU, I would argue it'd be better to find a new CD, who can share the ideals that Orlando and Singapore (confused Osaka there for a second) have for the event.

Manics brings up the majority of the points I do have, but at the end of the day; I do sincerely think they need to do a lot of soul searching, because when the event hits. It hits, really good.

 

[Spookies n' Stuff]

Sorry if this is too far off-topic but I’m curious because it keeps popping up — when people say they want to see a HHN Hollywood “reboot,” what do they mean by that, exactly? It’s kind of a vague term that could mean any number of things. What, specifically, needs to be “rebooted,” and I think more importantly, how do you “reboot” things?

I personally feel like “reboot” is just a codeword for “Fire Murdy,” which, tbh, I don’t think people actually want as much as they think they do. I’m all for new visions but you wanna talk about a “Pandora’s box” . . .

In my opinion it just means putting more effort into trying new things and shaking up the formula, to keep the event timely with all the other haunts constantly pushing the envelope. It's pretty easy to argue that in a lot of ways the event finding its own niche made it pretty easy for it to stagnate in a lot of aspects, like people expected Horror Made Here to be the competition the event needed to finally try something new, but that didn't really come to pass. People love to point the finger at Murdy, but I don't think he's really the issue, nor do i think replacing him would be an inherent improvement, though I think there are times where certain mazes dont get as much love as others since he has to work on 7-10 of them a year, which im sure could get tiring. I honestly don't know the ins and outs of how treatments and designs are created, and im sure its a team effort, but I think adding some new blood alongside murdy, having several primary designers similar to knotts, would both potentially shake things up and take some of the weight off of him.
There are totally some people who use the "reboot" idea as an excuse to say bad faith criticism or to just complain that the event isnt the same as when they were teens, but I think theres definitely some room for improvement that needs attentionif the event wants to have a solid future.

 

[viking_wizard_eyes]

More people Working on the Event/Team than just Murdy - Murdy is great when he cares about a maze which becomes a passion project but other mazes end up suffering because of it. Orlando benefits from having different designers on each project so each maze is a passion project for someone.

New Effects/Ideas - We see so many effects in mazes that are recycled over and over again. How about some new ones? Bungee Scares? Scares from above? Projection Mapping? Rain Effects (Like Orlando does)? Duck Spaces? Guest Activates Triggers? Multiple paths? Hollywood has become extremely stale by reusing over and over again.

More Care to Scare Zones - Flame Towers is a big one which has a lot of energy to the event. But Orlando and Knotts do these cool shows in their Scare Zones like moments that just happen and it immerses you in and I want to see Hollywood start doing that.

More Shows - Bringing back Jabbawockeez doesn't count and just changing 1 or 2 songs. Let's see more shows especially ones as epic and fun as the ones at Knotts and HHN Orlando.

Open up Hogwarts - Definitely needs to happen soon. Could take more people in and spread the event out more. Also could have Dark Arts!

Make the Event Less Sensitive - There was a time when Hollywood didn't care and did something as brutal as Hostel and did in it's full brutality. And then also Chucky Insult Emporium. Hollywood over the years has slowly gotten softer to complaints. I wanna see hardcore gore and stuff at a Horror event that's why I go. The event should be more suited for mature audiences which Knotts and HHN Orlando are and they excell because of it.

Just a couple of things that aren't just no more Black Walls which is something that does need to be fixed though.

None of this would constitute a “reboot” though. A reboot suggests a substantial overhaul in form or content. What you’re saying here is basically “Make HHN Great Again,” which is a totally fair perspective that I share in many ways, but tbh, it’s much more of a personal, “I’ve been going to HHN for years and I’m getting bored” type of mindset than an objective observation. The event has never been more viable or popular as a brand. The general public loves HHN.

I think if we’re gonna say HHN is getting stagnant (which, to reiterate, is fair), it’s because the event is a victim of its own success, which is decidedly not the same thing as it simply becoming a bad event. SoCal has the best haunt scene in the country and that is in large part because HHN has raised the standard; I think you could argue that even Knott’s, which has been in the Halloween game longer than Universal, doesn’t reach its level without HHN pushing it.

So it’s got nothing to do with the formula. Could we do with some new flavors? Absolutely. But I think you can accomplish that within the current HHN framework without “rebooting” anything. Reducing Murdy’s input or getting rid of him unceremoniously; changing the way mazes are ideated and executed; bucking tradition; these are things that would for sure have downstream effects that people ultimately might not like. Just something to think about.

FWIW, I think the event is going to be super different this year. The park is open but we all see how it’s struggling to return to normal. If HHN is down a few notches this year, let’s keep in mind everything that’s happened up to this point and not just dismiss the event or people behind it out of hand. Unless they’re just being egregiously irresponsible and unfair to their audience, they deserve our sympathy, not our complaints. And let’s maybe have some hope that they take a down year to rethink some things, which we all want to see.

 

[Jerroddragon]

I don't need a reboot

I just need them to do a few things
1) No Cutting Corners...don't bill it as in the movies and have more then like two black walls a maze
2) Change up the Tram Maze, this maze is by far the easiest maze to change up but they never do...no clue why but even having you start where you normally exit would be a start
3) Have Chucky or some sort of fun character EVERY night
4) Have at least two shows....I hate the current show they have so if WE must have that boring crap show at least give me something else. Use The Dream works Theater or Water World
5) USE Potterland even if its just a walkthrough the town/Scare zone
6) All rides open that can be, the park is full and lines are long give us things to do...don't care if its a kids ride people will ride it
7) Have a Maze we vote on, this is to me is a no brainier but have a fan selected maze each year
8) Will never happen but limit something...I don't care if its how many FOTL passes or passes in general the lines suckkkkk and can be better.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

Reducing Murdy’s input or getting rid of him unceremoniously; changing the way mazes are ideated and executed; bucking tradition; these are things that would for sure have downstream effects that people ultimately might not like. Just something to think about.

To be blunt--I'd rather take the bullet and say that ripping the bandaid off would be a better situation than to slowly peel it.

Hollywood needs a legitimate change in direction, as they can't keep going on with the event in the same format as it currently is. Something has to give, even if it'd mean things are more streamlined and matched alongside Orlando.

New Effects/Ideas - We see so many effects in mazes that are recycled over and over again. How about some new ones? Bungee Scares? Scares from above? Projection Mapping? Rain Effects (Like Orlando does)? Duck Spaces? Guest Activates Triggers? Multiple paths? Hollywood has become extremely stale by reusing over and over again.

This is the more interesting one for me, because Universal's Hollywood team, has used projection mapping in the past. I think the closest we've seen to a pseudo-comeback, is with Holidayz in Hell, and the facade with New Years Eve. Outside of that, we've had only one major and substancial implementation, that was restricted and exclusive, for RIP members at 2013's event. It's baffling to not see projection mapping at Hollywood implemented more. Especially when Orlando's expanding on projection mapping at the events, with Marathon of Mayhem.

 

[Jerroddragon]

To be blunt--I'd rather take the bullet and say that ripping the bandaid off would be a better situation than to slowly peel it.

Hollywood needs a legitimate change in direction, as they can't keep going on with the event in the same format as it currently is. Something has to give, even if it'd mean things are more streamlined and matched alongside Orlando.



This is the more interesting one for me, because Universal's Hollywood team, has used projection mapping in the past. I think the closest we've seen to a pseudo-comeback, is with Holidayz in Hell, and the facade with New Years Eve. Outside of that, we've had only one major and substancial implementation, that was restricted and exclusive, for RIP members at 2013's event. It's baffling to not see projection mapping at Hollywood implemented more. Especially when Orlando's expanding on projection mapping at the events, with Marathon of Mayhem.

I know we say THEY must change...but do they?

We all want change but I bet you this event sells out...and could be crap
Until people stop funding crap event we will keep getting them

 

[Legacy]

Universal should just “centralize” the event’s creation and follow the Busch model of Entertainment. Basically create the concepts and treatments for all the houses at both parks. Have two teams, one focused on adapting those ideas to Orlando’s structure and one dedicated to California adaptations, then just go from there.

 

[DJIndy49]

Hollywood will always have to deal with being sensitive. Cancel culture is a thing and Hollywood is much more tied to the studio wing then Orlando. Orlando is viewed as an amusement park themed around a movie studio, Hollywood is a studio with an amusement park on the grounds. This could even be why each event is essentially run separately.

I like Murdy, you could even say I am an apologist. I assume black walls are him spending the money on the scenes vs the transitions. I like the boo hole scares. I don't say that just so he doesn't yell at me when I ask for a picture.

All that having been said I agree that the structure of him being 100% hands on each maze isn't ideal, especially with him living in Ireland. A team in charge of each maze executing his vision would be more efficient.

 

[deadbydawn]

Anyhow, maybe unpopular opinion, but those candle twitter posts they're doing honestly bug me more than they get me excited for announcements. Had it just been the one it wouldn't be so bad, but its at a point where radio silence would honestly probably be a better look. We've waited this long, just teasing us like once a week doesn't mean much more than saying nothing at all

I agree. They also don't look good, like the formatting is kind of weird. I'd rather them not tweet than post those candles haha.

 

[viking_wizard_eyes]

To be blunt--I'd rather take the bullet and say that ripping the bandaid off would be a better situation than to slowly peel it.

Hollywood needs a legitimate change in direction, as they can't keep going on with the event in the same format as it currently is. Something has to give, even if it'd mean things are more streamlined and matched alongside Orlando.

I just think that the demand of "HHN needs a legitimate change in direction" will quickly turn into the complaint of "I miss the old HHN, they ruined it" when those changes we (apparently) so desperately need end up altering the nature of the event.

I tend to think people don't actually want "change," they just want their pet interests satisfied and believe they're entitled to that, for whatever reason. Like, there's literally nothing to indicate that "it can't keep going on ... in the same format" because this event continues to be extremely popular -- it is the most popular Halloween event not just in SoCal but arguably the most popular anywhere west of the Mississippi, and IMO, the reason for that is because they've never tried to compete with or imitate Orlando. They've thrived and succeeded and raised the quality of other regional events because of the standard they set.

I'm not saying it couldn't do with a jolt of creativity; I'm tired of the Toxic Tunnel and the recycled concepts and the extremely unimaginative original mazes, too. But none of those things require a change in "format." And if everyone is so desperate for HHN Hollywood to resemble HHN Orlando, well . . . there's these things called airplanes.

Sorry, ranting over.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

I just think that the demand of "HHN needs a legitimate change in direction" will quickly turn into the complaint of "I miss the old HHN, they ruined it" when those changes we (apparently) so desperately need end up altering the nature of the event.

I tend to think people don't actually want "change," they just want their pet interests satisfied and believe they're entitled to that, for whatever reason. Like, there's literally nothing to indicate that "it can't keep going on ... in the same format" because this event continues to be extremely popular -- it is the most popular Halloween event not just in SoCal but arguably the most popular anywhere west of the Mississippi, and IMO, the reason for that is because they've never tried to compete with or imitate Orlando. They've thrived and succeeded and raised the quality of other regional events because of the standard they set.

I'm not saying it couldn't do with a jolt of creativity; I'm tired of the Toxic Tunnel and the recycled concepts and the extremely unimaginative original mazes, too. But none of those things require a change in "format." And if everyone is so desperate for HHN Hollywood to resemble HHN Orlando, well . . . there's these things called airplanes.

Sorry, ranting over.

Personally (and my opinion's probably the more innocent due to the gap of me not going to the event), but I would argue that with Hollywood, change and accessibility should be something that is openly done. Getting stagnant, making repetitive choices, comes down to years of using the same tricks and the same books. Will people say "I miss the old HHN, why did they ruin it" or say explicitives and inappropriate slander when discussing new creative teams involved? Absolutely--but that comes down to the passing of the hand. I wouldn't expect it to be a knockout immediately after a Murdy/Williams departure; and I would honestly expect for a solid year or two that they'd be off the right foot. But I'd rather have that, and for whoever would be part of a new creative team, to find ways to innovate and push Hollywood into directions that compete directly with that of not just their sister at Orlando, but their So-Cal cousins of Knotts, Six Flags, and others.

Is Hollywood's event popular? Yes! But that's because Hollywood has focused, for nearly a decade, on intellectual properties and faces, to help promote that of the event, as they help influence elements, such as mazes, scarezones, and more. The only true "original" maze since admittedly La Llorona, Vampyre, and The Asylum, has been Pandora's Box; a maze that while I loved the heck out of, had a lot of people knocking the maze. Even things like Holidayz in Hell and Clownz 3D, had direct musical tie-ins (with Slash for Clownz and Figure for Holidayz).

 

[HHNManics]

Is Hollywood's event popular? Yes! But that's because Hollywood has focused, for nearly a decade, on intellectual properties and faces, to help promote that of the event, as they help influence elements, such as mazes, scarezones, and more. The only true "original" maze since admittedly La Llorona, Vampyre, and The Asylum, has been Pandora's Box; a maze that while I loved the heck out of, had a lot of people knocking the maze. Even things like Holidayz in Hell and Clownz 3D, had direct musical tie-ins (with Slash for Clownz and Figure for Holidayz).

You're forgetting El Cucuy. Arguably the only original mazes Hollywood really tried on were La Llorona and El Cucuy.

But at the same time none of these mazes have attempted to have any sort of deep backstory or anything that connects them together. They just have become opportunities for Hollywood to reuse everything that they have in the department (Clowns 3D, Holidayz, Pandora).

The problem with original mazes isn't that they're original but it's that they're original mazes with no attempt at main characters, lore, backstory, or actual creativity (It isn't creative when 99% of your maze is reused props, scares, and effects).

This has also spread into the IPs as well. Look at HOTC 2010 and then the 2019 version. How did we mess up a house that we did before like years prior to 2019?

It's clear that the execution of both the IPs and Originals has become weaker and that's the problem.

 

[Clive]

Are we really going to pretend that the Halloween Horror Nights of the past several years is really setting the standard for Southern California? I recognize that many elements impacting 2017 through 2019 were beyond the creative team's control, but a continued change in circumstances (i.e. event needs and budget) does eventually warrant a change in design strategy. That hasn't happened, and the result is a predominant reliance on black box scares and black walls.

In any a case, my original comment about worrying about this year stems from the lineup, not the creative execution.

 

[viking_wizard_eyes]

Are we really going to pretend that the Halloween Horror Nights of the past several years is really setting the standard for Southern California? I recognize that many elements impacting 2017 through 2019 were beyond the creative team's control, but a continued change in circumstances (i.e. event needs and budget) does eventually warrant a change in design strategy. That hasn't happened, and the result is a predominant reliance on black box scares and black walls.

In any a case, my original comment about worrying about this year stems from the lineup, not the creative execution.

I mean, are we really gonna pretend like Paranormal Inc. isn't kind of dull seven years in? I guess folks can do that if they want but idk . . .

Again, these "problems" that require a "reboot" of the overall design, format, and strategy of HHN aren't actually "problems" at all, IMO. It all seems to boil down to a personal preference of "I don't like black walls and boo holes." Nobody here does. And nobody here is saying that the event couldn't use a shot in the arm in certain ways. But let's not act like other events don't get stagnant or recycle things or rely on the same stuff year in and year out. I mean, come on.

And besides, the GP doesn't care or notice one way or the other, and it certainly isn't enough to prevent people (present company very much included) from not only attending, but attending multiple times each year. Point being: you throw the baby out with the bathwater because we're sick of black walls and boo holes? Like, what are we really talking about here?

 

[rageofthegods]

3:04:39 - 3:05:53

Going off what Legacy is saying with quality apparently Five Fires is saying The Exorcist is returning and will be in SS29?

 

[Spookies n' Stuff]

I mean, are we really gonna pretend like Paranormal Inc. isn't kind of dull seven years in? I guess folks can do that if they want but idk . . .

Again, these "problems" that require a "reboot" of the overall design, format, and strategy of HHN aren't actually "problems" at all, IMO. It all seems to boil down to a personal preference of "I don't like black walls and boo holes." Nobody here does. And nobody here is saying that the event couldn't use a shot in the arm in certain ways. But let's not act like other events don't get stagnant or recycle things or rely on the same stuff year in and year out. I mean, come on.

And besides, the GP doesn't care or notice one way or the other, and it certainly isn't enough to prevent people (present company very much included) from not only attending, but attending multiple times each year. Point being: you throw the baby out with the bathwater because we're sick of black walls and boo holes? Like, what are we really talking about here?

I will say, even though I still thouroughly enjoy the event pretty much every year, there are always a few little concerning hints of stagnation, like reused IPs or weak original concepts. As much as I really really loved Holidayz, it aint exactly a super original concept. Pandora was honestly one of the more unique original concepts for a maze I'd seen in a while, since even when knotts is really good, a lot of what they do are pretty well tread concepts. Only real issue was the execution didn't really match up to the potential the concept brought.

I honestly think another issue is Hollywood really has trouble playing to its own strengths, rather than getting caught up in Orlandos shadow. As much as I know a lot of people here weren't fans of terror tram, it was undeniably unique to hollywood, and its something a lot of my GP friends really looked foreward to yearly. It just never quite got the love it deserved in terms of setting it apart year after year. Maze count is another issue. Unless we get a budget and infrastructure to rival Orlando, Hollywoods event just simply cant sustain 9 or 10 mazes, we've always been suited to 6 or 7 max. I think in a lot of ways, "fixing" the event could really be as simple as paying attention to what hollywood does well and playing into that and pushing that further in new directions, rather than playing it safe or trying to be Orlando.

 

[Clive]

I mean, are we really gonna pretend like Paranormal Inc. isn't kind of dull seven years in? I guess folks can do that if they want but idk . . .

Again, these "problems" that require a "reboot" of the overall design, format, and strategy of HHN aren't actually "problems" at all, IMO. It all seems to boil down to a personal preference of "I don't like black walls and boo holes." Nobody here does. And nobody here is saying that the event couldn't use a shot in the arm in certain ways. But let's not act like other events don't get stagnant or recycle things or rely on the same stuff year in and year out. I mean, come on.

And besides, the GP doesn't care or notice one way or the other, and it certainly isn't enough to prevent people (present company very much included) from not only attending, but attending multiple times each year. Point being: you throw the baby out with the bathwater because we're sick of black walls and boo holes? Like, what are we really talking about here?

I'm not sure we can have a productive conversation if you really believe the event has been moving in the right direction since 2016.

 

[viking_wizard_eyes]

I'm not sure we can have a productive conversation if you really believe the event has been moving in the right direction since 2016.

I think they move in the right direction more often than not. They don't nail everything and I don't think the criticism here is like, wildly off-base or anything. But let's zoom out a little.

They've nabbed some legendary IPs like Creepshow (which everyone in Orlando whined about) and had one of the best houses in the history of the event (Us, which everyone in Orlando also whined about) as recently as the last event. Not every house is a home run, and I'm on board with a fresh perspective to get the creative juices flowing. (That's what helped make Us what it was, no doubt.) I'm on board with capping the event at 6 or 7 mazes and going quality over quantity, especially because that removes the likelihood of originals. I'm on board with pretty much everything.

But that stuff is simply not the same thing as hoping for a "reboot" of entire aspects of the event because it's "stagnant". Especially when other events will essentially run back identical lineups year after year -- events that are supposedly more "innovative" than HHN. I just don't buy the premise of that argument at all.

No offense to anyone here, but this is all sounding like "I'm bored with HHN" and "I want our HHN to be more like Orlando," which is more of a "you" problem than a problem with HHN. And that's fine! We all do our nitpicking and complaining, it's why we're here haha. But I feel like there'd be a whole lot more complaining if the event went and switched gears in a drastic way.

 

[chris.g]

It's funny because my sentiment isn't from the "I want our HHN to be more like Orlando" crowd, although I get it. But HHN Hollywood used to be freaking pee your pants scary. Orlando really doesn't give a damn (most of the time), but I miss when the event embraced horror and celebrated it instead of just throwing some recognizable names on the wall and making some cohesion out of it. I'm not a fan of the non-IP houses, but I do appreciate them when they're done right. La Llorona was probably my last favorite one. They just tend to have gotten off the beaten path in recent years in consistency, having completely off years or being on their A game, with the in between years being forgettable. I just want Hollywood to be a better version of itself. It obviously has the funds and power to do so.

It's also worth noting that HHN/ Uni Creative extremely values guest feedback and surveys, which more often that not actually sides with the "Fans" due to the fact they're paying premium for a separate event. Yet despite its constant asking of feedback it also seems to just push things aside.