Halloween Horror Nights 26 Discussion

[Brian G.]

I've never really paid attention to the packages offered. Do they include any kind of multi day HHN ticket, or is it hotel only and then you buy FFP?

Nope. It's usually a 1-2 day park ticket depending on the length of stay along with 1 night admission to HHN.

 

[Fatality]

Yeah I agree in maximizing ticket profits, I just think they've done this. There's only so much their going to get from that though. There's a point were people aren't going to pay to keep going back to the same event. In my case for example I'm not going to spend more than around $300 for HHN tickets, I on average spend about $25 each night I visit. Right now I would say Universal has maximized how much their going to get from me.

They absolutely have not maximized revenue from the front gate when there are countless folks who are paying >$20 to walk in the door.

Cue: folks saying that they always eat and drink. Neato. Cool. But it's all chump change considering the folks that are dropping 3-4x times than you on admission AND the fact that since they are only experiencing one evening (or vacation, perhaps) and go all out in the parks (looking at you English folks).

It's a premium event and people can, will and do pay a premium price.

In the end, besides logic, the best argument I've seen is above when speaking about Happy Guests and restructuring FFP/ROFP.

 

[s8film40]

Nope. It's usually a 1-2 day park ticket depending on the length of stay along with 1 night admission to HHN.

I've been wondering if the out of town visitors may be contributing to the busier Sunday's. I know if it were me and I was staying over the weekend I would use the HHN ticket on Friday and then upgrade it to go again on Sunday. As a local I prefer Wednesday though Friday, I can just go after work and it's less busy.

 

[s8film40]

They absolutely have not maximized revenue from the front gate when there are countless folks who are paying >$20 to walk in the door.

Cue: folks saying that they always eat and drink. Neato. Cool. But it's all chump change considering the folks that are dropping 3-4x times than you on admission AND the fact that since they are only experiencing one evening (or vacation, perhaps) and go all out in the parks (looking at you English folks).

It's a premium event and people can, will and do pay a premium price.

In the end, besides logic, the best argument I've seen is above when speaking about Happy Guests and restructuring FFP/ROFP.

I think your missing the point. Lets say they did away with FFP and all non Saturdays were $75, most people who previously would have bought a FFP and gone 10-20 nights aren't going to shell out $750 - $1500 on tickets to continue that pattern. For me personally in this scenario I would probably go at least 3-4 nights if that. Now last year I went 25 nights and spent about $25 each night, that's $625 + about $300 for my ticket so $925. Now at $75 a night I will spend $300 on my ticket and $100 on F&B, that's a net loss of $500 in revenue for Universal. I definitely get that at some point that might make sense if it is keeping others out but we don't seem to be close to that point yet.

 

[Fatality]

I spend $1,000+ on 4 nights of HHN.

We can all offer our anecdotal evidence. I think the best sign that it is too cheap is the fact that a FFP is cheaper than 1 single general admission ticket.

That's lunacy.

I think with 2-4+ hour waits for houses some would beg to differ that it's not quite at "that point."

You spend $12 a night to enter AND get express. There's people who spend $200 on that alone. Not to mention what they'll drop on food and beverage. The $500 they would "lose" from you not going as much is chump change compared to what they're "losing" in what they could charge.

I don't suggest getting rid of FFP's, merely a price hike. Even though I do think HHN could still survive without FFP's and do just absolutely fine.

 

[Brian G.]

That's a net loss of $500 in revenue for Universal.

Which they will have made up with the addition of 1000 rooms at Sapphire and the people staying on-site. Say average occupancy for those 1000 rooms are 3. You now have 3000 people on-site, spending money on property. You're at work, and head to HHN after? Those hotel guests are already there spending coin.

I guess the bottom line is that the FFP is just Universal fan service that just so happens to turn a small profit. They know those with FFP are more likely than not AP holders, and will find a way to still go multiple times with however they end up structuring the tickets.

 

[s8film40]

I spend $1,000+ on 4 nights of HHN.

We can all offer our anecdotal evidence. I think the best sign that it is too cheap is the fact that a FFP is cheaper than 1 single general admission ticket.

That's lunacy.

I think with 2-4+ hour waits for houses some would beg to differ that it's not quite at "that point."

You spend $12 a night to enter AND get express. There's people who spend $200 on that alone. Not to mention what they'll drop on food and beverage. The $500 they would "lose" from you not going as much is chump change compared to what they're "losing" in what they could charge.

I don't suggest getting rid of FFP's, merely a price hike. Even though I do think HHN could still survive without FFP's and do just absolutely fine.

The fact that FFP is cheaper than a Saturday and or 2 nights only shows how Universal views these tickets. The fact is if your willing to go more than one night they want you to be able to go as many nights as possible. They've already made the ticket money off of you and if your willing to come back and spend money on food and drinks they make it as easy as possible to do that. We look at it as $5 - $10 a night for admission they look at it as $90 the first night, $10 the second night and free after that. If there wasn't a huge amount of guest spending going on they would have made changes a long time ago. There are a lot of locals and this is still a very local based event, that's where the money is in this and they're not going to cut that off. Again as far as crowding that only helps sell the express passes.

Which they will have made up with the addition of 1000 rooms at Sapphire and the people staying on-site. Say average occupancy for those 1000 rooms are 3. You now have 3000 people on-site, spending money on property. You're at work, and head to HHN after? Those hotel guests are already there spending coin.

I guess the bottom line is that the FFP is just Universal fan service that just so happens to turn a small profit. They know those with FFP are more likely than not AP holders, and will find a way to still go multiple times with however they end up structuring the tickets.

FFP is not fan service, it's a vital part of this event. There's no reason for them to just leave money on the table. If it were just fan service it would be limited like it is in Hollywood and not advertised. They put banners up, include it in most promotional material and even add a whole section to the guide map to help sell it, they're not just doing all that to be nice and let the fans know about the great deal their graciously allowing them to have.

 

[Brian G.]

FFP is not fan service, it's a vital part of this event. There's no reason for them to just leave money on the table. If it were just fan service it would be limited like it is in Hollywood and not advertised. They put banners up, include it in most promotional material and even add a whole section to the guide map to help sell it, they're not just doing all that to be nice and let the fans know about the great deal their graciously allowing them to have.

Fans know about FFP. They already know going in what ticket they are getting. Commercials don't advertise FFP's, they advertise Coca-Cola savings off 1 day tickets.

The advertisement on the ticket map is there for those clueless vistors, who are probably there 1 weekend and Universal hopes that they want to come back to spend more money at the resort. If FFP is gone, they would be none the wiser, and would take whatever alternative Universal provides if they so happen to decide to make it a mutli-weekend adventure.

The only ones that would ever complain about FFP being cut or a price hike would be the fans. FFP is a steal as is, and you've seen the figures.

But again, I do not see them cutting it. I see them drastically increasing the price.

 

[s8film40]

Fans know about FFP. They already know going in what ticket they are getting. Commercials don't advertise FFP's, they advertise Coca-Cola savings off 1 day tickets.

The advertisement on the ticket map is there for those clueless vistors, who are probably there 1 weekend and Universal hopes that they want to come back to spend more money at the resort. If FFP is gone, they would be none the wiser, and would take whatever alternative Universal provides if they so happen to decide to make it a mutli-weekend adventure.

The only ones that would ever complain about FFP being cut or a price hike would be the fans. FFP is a steal as is, and you've seen the figures.

It would be nice to think that it's there just for the fans, but the truth is it's there because it makes money. If it ever stopped making money short of something like what Hollywood offers it would be gone without a second thought regardless of what the fans think. HHN is a money making machine and FFP is a huge part of that. Universal has made it clear through their actions they'll do whatever it takes to make FFP work. They could easily limit the number of them sold or the number of nights it's valid for, yet last year they chose instead to take on increasing attendance with adding a house and opening up Diagon Alley.

 

[Fatality]

It would be nice to think that it's there just for the fans, but the truth is it's there because it makes money. If it ever stopped making money short of something like what Hollywood offers it would be gone without a second thought regardless of what the fans think. HHN is a money making machine and FFP is a huge part of that. Universal has made it clear through their actions they'll do whatever it takes to make FFP work. They could easily limit the number of them sold or the number of nights it's valid for, yet last year they chose instead to take on increasing attendance with adding a house and opening up Diagon Alley.

It could make MORE money is essentially the gist/fact.

 

[s8film40]

It could make MORE money is essentially the gist/fact.

I really don't get that point. Limiting people from going in and spending money isn't going to net more unless those people not going in are being replaced by those who are spending more. There's nothing at all pointing to this at this point, if that changes at some point in the future I would agree with you but for now it seems FFP is here to stay.

 

[Brian G.]

It would be nice to think that it's there just for the fans, but the truth is it's there because it makes money.

Well yeah - that's why I said "FFP is just Universal fan service that just so happens to turn a small profit." FFP, as it is now, worked when the event was smaller and was perfect. The event has grown tremendously where FFP needs to be worked on, restructured, or cut. Crowds are a problem, and they're not gonna dramatically increase the 1 day tickets to rectify it. They're going to rectify the tickets that allows people to go multiple times. The vacationing family who's there for 1 weekend holds more monetary value than a person who is going 20+ nights.

If it ever stopped making money short of something like what Hollywood offers it would be gone without a second thought regardless of what the fans think. HHN is a money making machine and FFP is a huge part of that. Universal has made it clear through their actions they'll do whatever it takes to make FFP work.

We can't compare Hollywood to Orlando. Hollywood is a much more locally-driven event; what Orlando used to be in it's infancy.

They could easily limit the number of them sold or the number of nights it's valid for, yet last year they chose instead to take on increasing attendance with adding a house and opening up Diagon Alley.

They did all that to expand capacity of the growing crowds, not anything directly tied to FFP.

 

[Brian G.]

I really don't get that point. Limiting people from going in and spending money isn't going to net more unless those people not going in are being replaced by those who are spending more. There's nothing at all pointing to this at this point, if that changes at some point in the future I would agree with you but for now it seems FFP is here to stay.

Those who wanna go to HHN multiple nights, regardless of structure, will find a way to go. Universal knows this....

 

[Fatality]

I really don't get that point. Limiting people from going in and spending money isn't going to net more unless those people not going in are being replaced by those who are spending more. There's nothing at all pointing to this at this point, if that changes at some point in the future I would agree with you but for now it seems FFP is here to stay.

You don't get the point of charging more for something that you could? The point of making more money?

Your logic of "limiting people in" is ridiculous. HHN is not desperate for attendance. On that note, why not make annual passes $2? Why keep people out? It's a premium event and people will pay premium prices. That is why. You have sold out onsite hotels all HHN event nights to prove the draw of this "locals" event.

Would you not buy a FFP for $200? It's still a bargain at that price.

 

[s8film40]

You don't get the point of charging more for something that you could? The point of making more money?

Your logic of "limiting people in" is ridiculous. HHN is not desperate for attendance. On that note, why not make annual passes $2? Why keep people out? It's a premium event and people will pay premium prices. That is why. You have sold out onsite hotels all HHN event nights to prove the draw of this "locals" event.

Would you not buy a FFP for $200? It's still a bargain at that price.

Like I said your looking at this backwards. The reason it's a bargain is because Universal wants people in there as much as possible. $200 for two nights isn't a bargain. The number of people who buy this ticket instead of buying a two night ticket and then decide to go a third or fourth night far outweighs the number of people using this for 15-20 nights. Most people outside of us who are fans just aren't going to spend more to go back and experience the same thing again again. Now if they ended up with a pass that lets them go back they may decide to. Most annual passes would indeed work out to around $1 a day, a much better value than FFP, in fact I haven't done the math but if you put FFP in the category of AP's I wouldn't be surprised if FFP is the most expensive. A good number of those hotel rooms are also booked up by locals using their FFP.

 

[Brian G.]

Math in it's most basic form:

Say 1000 went last year to HHN 25

800 bought 1 day tickets for $101.99 (equaling $81,592) and 200 people bought FFP basic at $110.99 (equaling $22.198), the event would have brought in a revenue from tickets of $103,790

Let's say this year in 2016, Universal increases 1 day tickets to the normal goings and it goes to $105.99. Now let's say Universal does dramatically hike up FFP basic to $179.99. Fans are upset so only 100 people end up buying the FFP for a revenue of $17,999.00. The other 100 opt for 1-day tickets, so 900 tickets sold equals to $95,391.00.

Total 2016 revenue from those 1000 = $113,390.00

Again, this is incredibly simplifying things to the most basic kind of figures. Obviously not accounting drinks, food, staying on-site, merch etc..... but the point is there.

 

[s8film40]

Math in it's most basic form:

Say 1000 went last year to HHN 25

800 bought 1 day tickets for $101.99 (equaling $81,592) and 200 people bought FFP basic at $110.99 (equaling $22.198), the event would have brought in a revenue from tickets of $103,790

Let's say this year in 2016, Universal increases 1 day tickets to the normal goings and it goes to $105.99. Now let's say Universal does dramatically hike up FFP basic to $179.99. Fans are upset so only 100 people end up buying the FFP for a revenue of $17,999.00. The other 100 opt for 1-day tickets, so 900 tickets sold equals to $95,391.00.

Total 2016 revenue from those 1000 = $113,390.00

Again, this is incredibly simplifying things to the most basic kind of figures. Obviously not accounting drinks, food, staying on-site, merch etc..... but the point is there.

Okay now lets add in the food and beverage. I will give in to the idea that those going one night spend more to a certain degree lets say each one night visitor spends $50 and lets say FFP visitors spend only $25 a night and average 10 nights.

2015
800 one night visitors: $40,000
200 FFP Visitors: $50,000
Total with tickets: $193,790

2016
900 one night visitors: $45,000
100 FFP visitors: $25,000
Total with tickets: $183,390

 

[Brian G.]

Okay now lets add in the food and beverage. I will give in to the idea that those going one night spend more to a certain degree lets say each one night visitor spends $50 and lets say FFP visitors spend only $25 a night and average 10 nights.

2015
800 one night visitors: $40,000
200 FFP Visitors: $50,000
Total with tickets: $193,790

2016
900 one night visitors: $45,000
100 FFP visitors: $25,000
Total with tickets: $183,390

Well if you wanna get into more variables, it gets complicated. You're only counting 1 day tickets as bought once in a 10-day period. Even with tickets alone, 1-day tickets bought in the 10 day period would amount to $815,000....Ticket revenue from FFP would still be the same at $22,198.

If you wanna add the avg cost a visitor spends -

1 day people with ticket and expenditures =
$ 1,215,920.00

FFP = $ 122,198.00

(I made it all $50 to just make it fair.)

 

[s8film40]

Well if you wanna get into more variables, it gets complicated. You're only counting 1 day tickets as bought once in a 10-day period. Even with tickets alone, 1-day tickets bought in the 10 day period would amount to $815,000....Ticket revenue from FFP would still be the same at $22,198.

I thought in your scenario 100 former FFP visitors decided to only go one day due to the price increase? I assumed we were just analyzing a pool of 1000 people, this should scale up though and proportionally stay the same.

In any case I'm sure Universal runs these number just like this every year with far more accuracy and as a result FFP comes back every year. I agree one day it may not, but all the indications I've gotten point to them actually moving to expand the FFP, and I of course expect continuos price increases to it.

 

[Frank Drackman]

I have no insight to any of the numbers or anything, but from what I've seen, I think if I had to structure any change, I would stop having the Express pass add on cover every night the ticket is good. Maybe sell the Express add on and have different options at different price points...like one good for the first three weeks, if the person wants more, then a more expensive one for weeks four and five.

I imagine that gets complicated though.

I've always bought RoF, but we have never used it every night it was good for (we did come closer for 25 than any other year).

Anyway, I just hope I am still able to travel up once and get in at least four nights...I imagine if it got too costly, I'd try and save by staying offsite, which would cause my family to eat offsite more as well.

I really do not envy anyone that needs to find the right balance to keep the event's success moving forward/upward!