Pandora: The World of Avatar Announcement, Construction, & Preview Discussion

[Yabbadabba Doh]

So, the hanger and other conventional looking building are the base area, and the boat ride and simulator are in the tall and shorter buildings which are both behind the rockwork façade right? Man, that building is huge! I wonder how much is pre-show and queue space versus the 4 show rooms.

 

[IzzyB]

So is the Billion for just Avatar, or it is Avatar and the other changes they are making to AK for the night time stuff?

 

[Mad Dog]

So is the Billion for just Avatar, or it is Avatar and the other changes they are making to AK for the night time stuff?

I don't think anyone knows the real figures, but that number has been bandied about by the insiders over at Magic. $800 million to $1 Billion, with the original budget being $500 million. The references I've read have just referred to this as being Pandora costs, not the others. But who knows the amount for sure? Disney hasn't said anything publicly, though it certainly seems like there are huge cost over runs. It might be one of the contributing factors for all of those staffing cuts at WDW, in addition to Shanghai, Paris, Hong Kong, Next Gen etc.

 

[rhino4evr]

construction costs are much more than they used to be, so comparing this land to when AK was originally built isn't really fair. They are definitely overspending, but that seems to be pretty common for Disney. We are also looking at some really state of the art attractions and grounds. When AK opened, the most "advanced" ride they had was Dinosaur. The majority of the cost went into landscaping, animal purchases, and of course the Tree.

Speaking of the Tree...the show building for Avatar dwarfs it. That's one hell of a building.

 

[Cheezbat]

construction costs are much more than they used to be, so comparing this land to when AK was originally built isn't really fair. They are definitely overspending, but that seems to be pretty common for Disney. We are also looking at some really state of the art attractions and grounds. When AK opened, the most "advanced" ride they had was Dinosaur. The majority of the cost went into landscaping, animal purchases, and of course the Tree.

Speaking of the Tree...the show building for Avatar dwarfs it. That's one hell of a building.

It's only been 18 years. The park cost (rumored) around $700 million to build. 500 acres. Hundreds of animals, Numerous restaurants, The Tree if Life, Dinosaur, Kilimanjaro Safaris, Parking lots, bus stops, Africa, Rafikis Planet Watch, Dinoland...

I know construction costs have escalated since 1998, but to consider an aesthetically pretty land with one restaurant and two rides costs $1 billion is ridiculous.

Look at the amazing land Universal built with Diagon Alley...two good rides, one a state of the art attraction...and the entire thing didn't even cost $300 million!
Something has got to change with Imagineering and their bloated budgets. This is not ok.

 

[Disneyhead]

It's only been 18 years. The park cost (rumored) around $700 million to build. 500 acres. Hundreds of animals, Numerous restaurants, The Tree if Life, Dinosaur, Kilimanjaro Safaris, Parking lots, bus stops, Africa, Rafikis Planet Watch, Dinoland...

I know construction costs have escalated since 1998, but to consider an aesthetically pretty land with one restaurant and two rides costs $1 billion is ridiculous.

Look at the amazing land Universal built with Diagon Alley...two good rides, one a state of the art attraction...and the entire thing didn't even cost $300 million!
Something has got to change with Imagineering and their bloated budgets. This is not ok.

The head of Imagineering, Bruce Vaughn, was forced out because of the ridiculous cost overruns of NFL, SDL, and Pandora.

But personally, not my problem. I'll just enjoy the billion $$$$ theme park land.

 

[Nick]

But personally, not my problem. I'll just enjoy the billion $$$$ theme park land.

This is how I feel. It's not my money. And if you think Disney wouldn't raise prices even if the land wasn't over budget, you're delusional.

 

[Miketheboss]

This land will be the most beautiful themed land ever built, imo. Just the engineering for this thing is crazy. I feel like avatar land can be considered a fantasy land because this will feel like youre transported into another world.

I feel like Animal Kingdom will be the second best Disney World themepark. Maybe even number one for adults.

Another thing I'm looking forward to is the landscaping. I'm sure Disney is going to bring in some incredible looking plants.

 

[IzzyB]

This is how I feel. It's not my money. And if you think Disney wouldn't raise prices even if the land wasn't over budget, you're delusional.

This. Prices will rise and they will keep even with Universal. So this doesn't effect us. If anyone things Disney would do more projects if it cost less is also delusional. That is not how Disney works. Same with Magic Bands, people hate it because it cost so much and that money could have been spent on rides. Even without magic band project they would not have invested that money in rides. Because Disney's mentality was Orlando was a mature market and they want to get more money from the people that do come vs. get new people. So it would have been some other dumb project to get more money from current guests, not building new rides.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Not familiar with it - care to elaborate?

This is how I feel. It's not my money. And if you think Disney wouldn't raise prices even if the land wasn't over budget, you're delusional.

Problem with this led to the drought after Everest. When lands go over budget recklessly then less attractions and lands are built as the spending cannot be justified. It's like bragging the Big Dig went over budget.

 

[twebber55]

keep in mind no one knows how much or even if this is over budget

i do think every part of this DAK expansion so far is outstanding

 

[Scott W.]

keep in mind no one knows how much or even if this is over budget

i do think every part of this DAK expansion so far is outstanding

I'd be shocked if Disney managed to complete project under budget.

 

[Mad Dog]

Problem with this led to the drought after Everest. When lands go over budget recklessly then less attractions and lands are built as the spending cannot be justified. It's like bragging the Big Dig went over budget.

Yeah, I think both you & Izzy are right. Expansions going way, way over budget end up inhibiting future expansions and spending. And if the two Star Wars expansions ends up like Pandora budget wise, the Board of Directors will have a stroke. Yes, they hired a new director for Imagineering, probably to try to fix the cost issues. But the question is, will they succeed in fixing it. Studying bureaucracies in both business and government, once they become entrenched, they are very difficult, if not impossible, to change.

 

[Nick]

I'd be shocked if Disney managed to complete project under budget.

I do wonder, is the Avatar budget supposedly over $1B or does that include things like Harambe market, RoL, Discovery Island improvements and additions to the safari (SCREENZ) for the nighttime safari.

 

[rhino4evr]

It's only been 18 years. The park cost (rumored) around $700 million to build. 500 acres. Hundreds of animals, Numerous restaurants, The Tree if Life, Dinosaur, Kilimanjaro Safaris, Parking lots, bus stops, Africa, Rafikis Planet Watch, Dinoland...

I know construction costs have escalated since 1998, but to consider an aesthetically pretty land with one restaurant and two rides costs $1 billion is ridiculous.

Look at the amazing land Universal built with Diagon Alley...two good rides, one a state of the art attraction...and the entire thing didn't even cost $300 million!
Something has got to change with Imagineering and their bloated budgets. This is not ok.

Now I'm not knocking Diagon, but Avatar is much more ambitious of an idea then Diagon. Which is really just a bunch of themed buildings. The landscaping and rock work alone is probably worth 300 million. I'm sure it took some serious engineering/architectural skills to figure out those "floating" mountains. It won't look like anything else. I'd say only Disney Sea will top this are in themeing.

I even think SW land will be less ambitious in the grand scheme of things.

 

[UNIrd]

Good point on the cost. Disney Imagineering and their entire processes definitely need overhauled. When a Little Mermaid ride costs around what Forbidden Journey costs, that tells you something is wrong. This land will be impressive but imagine what Universal could have built with that same budget plus cost over runs.

They could have built 3rd gate.

 

[Mad Dog]

Now I'm not knocking Diagon, but Avatar is much more ambitious of an idea then Diagon. Which is really just a bunch of themed buildings. The landscaping and rock work alone is probably worth 300 million. I'm sure it took some serious engineering/architectural skills to figure out those "floating" mountains. It won't look like anything else. I'd say only Disney Sea will top this are in themeing.

I even think SW land will be less ambitious in the grand scheme of things.

Sometimes I think Disney cares more about rock work than their new attractions. Heck, I can't ride rock work. And, not every significant landscape in the world is dominated by bare rocks. Disney is kind of obsessed with it....On the point of comparing it to Diagon. Diagon's strength is that, for most people, they can spend hours upon hours, and days upon days, enjoying and exploring all that's offered. To me, that will be what compares Pandora to Diagon. Will I be able to spend most of a day there. Will there be enough to see and do. Time will tell....Example: New Fantasy Land is really beautiful. But short of the time spent on the rides, after about 15 or 20 minutes of walking around the land, that's it. There's really nothing to do or explore. And only a couple of benches to even sit on and enjoy the ambiance. Not even a single outdoor show happening. Just nothing. But the rock work is really great to look at.

 

[rhino4evr]

Sometimes I think Disney cares more about rock work than their new attractions. Heck, I can't ride rock work. And, not every significant landscape in the world is dominated by bare rocks. Disney is kind of obsessed with it....On the point of comparing it to Diagon. Diagon's strength is that, for most people, they can spend hours upon hours, and days upon days, enjoying and exploring all that's offered. To me, that will be what compares Pandora to Diagon. Will I be able to spend most of a day there. Will there be enough to see and do. Time will tell....Example: New Fantasy Land is really beautiful. But short of the time spent on the rides, after about 15 or 20 minutes of walking around the land, that's it. There's really nothing to do or explore. And only a couple of benches to even sit on and enjoy the ambiance. Not even a single outdoor show happening. Just nothing. But the rock work is really great to look at.

I totally agree, but my point still stands. Also, I'd still argue that this is way more ambitious than New Fantasyland.

Potter really has an advantage on the merchandise stand point. If you want to spend all day in highly themed retail shops, then so be it. Personally I don't really care about it as much as the Potter folks do. It also had 8 (?) books of source material to fall back on. Avatar is a 3 hour movie.

 

[Mad Dog]

I totally agree, but my point still stands. Also, I'd still argue that this is way more ambitious than New Fantasyland.

Potter really has an advantage on the merchandise stand point. If you want to spend all day in highly themed retail shops, then so be it. Personally I don't really care about it as much as the Potter folks do. It also had 8 (?) books of source material to fall back on. Avatar is a 3 hour movie.

Agreed, it's more ambitious than NFL. I'll be interested in how in turns out, since, as I've said previously, I'm one of those looking forward to it. Although I'm not crazy about a military mess hall for a restaurant, but maybe it will surprise me. .....Also, I'm no Harry Potter fan, never read a book or watched an entire movie, but I find myself immersed & fascinated by Diagon/London/ Gingotts/HE. And even the retail stores are so much more than stores. We go in there and forget the rest of the park exists. And those three shows are priceless. I've never experienced anything like the Diagon expansion complex in a theme park. Not even Hogsmeade.

 

[Nick]

Agreed, it's more ambitious than NFL. I'll be interested in how in turns out, since, as I've said previously, I'm one of those looking forward to it. Although I'm not crazy about a military mess hall for a restaurant, but maybe it will surprise me. .....Also, I'm no Harry Potter fan, never read a book or watched an entire movie, but I find myself immersed & fascinated by Diagon/London/ Gingotts/HE. And even the retail stores are so much more than stores. We go in there and forget the rest of the park exists. And those three shows are priceless. I've never experienced anything like the Diagon expansion complex in a theme park. Not even Hogsmeade.

I'm personally not big on the Diagon stores. The area itself is definitely crazy immersive, but at the same time, I only go there to ride Gringotts or to get Butterbeer Ice Cream. The HE is something I'll only do if it has a short wait and I want to switch parks.