Pandora: The World of Avatar Announcement, Construction, & Preview Discussion

[JungleSkip]

Color me disappointed so far but it's way to early and a lot can change.

This is already the lowball plan Disney's been pushing for. Cameron has approved it.

I don't think it's getting any better.

 

[Andy]

Trying to be optimistic Skip

 

[JungleSkip]

Trying to be optimistic Skip

We all know I'm an optimism crushing monster.

 

[Andy]

We all know I'm an optimism crushing monster.

Well at least we still have RSR'S to look forward to :look:

 

[JungleSkip]

Well at least we still have Potter, Transformers, and Seuss to look forward to :look:

Fixed.

 

[Hockeyman55]

Its more like at least we have Transformers,Potter 2.0, Suess and many other things to look forward too Disney just doesn't get it.

^ we were thinking the same thing :thumbs:

 

[nmu]

Come on give them a break lets see what actual happens. I don’t want to start the “this is an anti Disney site” but if it looks like a pig and smells like a pig IT’S A PIG. At least this thing looks like it may get off the ground now and there were many Nay-Sayers here doubting just that so come on at best lets wait and see. Love this site and read it daily. Love Universal and what there doing hats off. But please try to be a bit positive we have no idea what the real plans are.

May be with RSR to come over at DHS plus who knows what else and now some forward movement on Avatar Disney are responding to Universal and as others have said here about time.

 

[Brian G.]

Come on give them a break lets see what actual happens. I don’t want to start the “this is an anti Disney site” but if it looks like a pig and smells like a pig IT’S A PIG. At least this thing looks like it may get off the ground now and there were many Nay-Sayers here doubting just that so come on at best lets wait and see. Love this site and read it daily. Love Universal and what there doing hats off. But please try to be a bit positive we have no idea what the real plans are.

May be with RSR to come over at DHS plus who knows what else and now some forward movement on Avatar Disney are responding to Universal and as others have said here about time.

Not Anti-Disney, it's Anti-Disney World Management.

 

[Jakemeister]

....yeah. Universal is really going to start pulling bigger and bigger numbers soon.

 

[Brian G.]

....yeah. Universal is really going to start pulling bigger and bigger numbers soon.

They still won't touch MK or Epcot though. I think a perfectly accetable goal for them is to pull better numbers than DHS and AK. If they obtain that, than I would consider that a huge win.

 

[JungleSkip]

They still won't touch MK or Epcot though. I think a perfectly accetable goal for them is to pull better numbers than DHS and AK. If they obtain that, than I would consider that a huge win.

Have you seen EPCOT's numbers? EPCOT has a pretty minimal lead about DAK and DHS, and has been shrinking the past few years.

MK is the only untouchable one, IMO.

 

[Brian G.]

Have you seen EPCOT's numbers? EPCOT has a pretty minimal lead about DAK and DHS, and has been shrinking the past few years.

MK is the only untouchable one, IMO.

Not shrinking, per se. Stagnant would be a better term. It's been hovering around 10.9 for the past 4 years. Either way, they still have Food & Wine which helps them greatly. If they do add one signature ride there in the next few years, I can see it jumping close to 12.

 

[Jakemeister]

I don't think Universal can topple Magic Kingdom and Epcot might be hard to topple. I do however think they're going to topple 2 of the 4 Disney parks and maybe then TDO will realize that they're playing with a company with it's eyes on the target.

 

[quickfire609]

I don't think Universal can topple Magic Kingdom and Epcot might be hard to topple. I do however think they're going to topple 2 of the 4 Disney parks and maybe then TDO will realize that they're playing with a company with it's eyes on the target.

Universal is already beating Disney in the key factor, merchandise. More people are purchasing Uni merchandise than Disney merchandise at this point.

The evidence is obvious if you live/work around the parks. Even when I worked at Disney, I saw more people with Despicable me, simpsons, and thing shirts than I did mickey shirts. Granted those ears still sell like crazy, but that's about all at this point. I'm also forgetting to mention the things you don't see, such as Wands and Butterbeer. Per guest spending at Universal is higher than at any of the Disney parks.

 

[Jakemeister]

I had people ask me where to buy Thing shirts when I worked in the parks all the time. I was honest, and sent them to the right place.

 

[shiekra38]

Come on give them a break lets see what actual happens. I don’t want to start the “this is an anti Disney site” but if it looks like a pig and smells like a pig IT’S A PIG. At least this thing looks like it may get off the ground now and there were many Nay-Sayers here doubting just that so come on at best lets wait and see. Love this site and read it daily. Love Universal and what there doing hats off. But please try to be a bit positive we have no idea what the real plans are.

May be with RSR to come over at DHS plus who knows what else and now some forward movement on Avatar Disney are responding to Universal and as others have said here about time.

Hop on over to the HHN22 area...this is not an anti-Disney board..it is a pro quality board, and Universal is showing higher quality at the moment than Disney

 

[JungleSkip]

Great, indepth breakdown from a professional who has the full plans:

I'm going to chime in again, if for no other reason than to clear up a few of the misnomers and misconceptions being batted around. Lee and others have done a nice job giving yes and no answers to specific details, but since these drawings have obviously saturated the web already, there are hundreds or thousands of people interpreting them improperly.

I'm not boasting, but since I draft, design and build commercial buildings for a living, I feel like topics like this are my one and only time to shine and call myself an "expert". I am by no means an insider. I just know exactly what I'm looking at when I see collections of documents like the ones people are seeing today.

Speaking of these drawings, the few sheets being posted on the web seem to have been acquired from sources completely separate from the venue through which my copy was delivered. Also, many of those out on the web have been photoshopped, had watermarks whited out, and are very low resolution.

The version I have on my computer is full-sized, original PDF files. The Architectural Plans are 48" wide by 36" tall blueprints - and I just printed a full size copy on our office plotter today. Those little color-coded plans are from an 8.5x11 document that the mechanical engineer produced, showing how many air conditioning units would be needed for the project. Those colored areas are actually HVAC zones, and mean nothing else. And the plans that those colors have been placed on are not exactly identical to the working drawings, but they do imply portions of the ride system, where the architectural ones do not.

There is also a complete set of foundation and structural steel drawings. There are massive foundations with 80' deep auger-cast piles under each of the four ride apparatuses. This tells me that the ride system is very similar to soarin, in that there is a massive undercarriage that holds up what will likely be a moving set of seats. Whether it just tilts like Soarin, or is on a series of hydraulic cylinders like Star Tours - I don't know. There flat out is NOT enough detail on these plans, no matter what anyone on here says. Period.

With this said, I would like to offer some bullet point facts (and inferences) that should clear up some of the questions, and bad information being circulated:

As of this moment in time, the set of plans and narratives that contractors possess are limited only to this one large building, which contains what Disney is calling an E-Ticket and a C-Ticket. Those words are used throughout the entire set of documents.

The C-Ticket APPEARS to be a boat ride, given the meandering course of the ride path as it comes into and leaves the northeast corner of the main building. The vehicles look like boats as well. Calling it a C-Ticket on the plans doesn't give me warm fuzzies. They couldn't do anything less than a Pirates type attraction (which I consider to have extensive theming), but I'm wondering if they'd use their new boat maneuvering patent which allows them to turn a boat and aim guests like an Omnimover does. That would make a lot of sense if they're taking you on a tour through Pandora.

The E-Ticket has four isolated theaters, with four isolated ride systems. In no way, shape or form will guests move from one theater to another. They will operate exclusive of each other and there are four purely for the sake of crowd control and throughput. There is one queue that splits guests, via ramps, to one of 3 tiers of loading platforms in each theater. Very similar to soarin, except you board on 3 levels instead of one, and there are 4 theaters instead of 2.

There are comments in the narratives that explain to the contractors that the following components of this land will exist, but have not yet been drawn: E-Ticket Retail, QSR, Area Retail, Area Restrooms, Conditioned Queue for C-Ticket.

There is also a note in the narrative that the north face of the building will interface with rockscape. And given that the structural steel at the top of the 76' tall building is tapered inward, it becomes clear that this will resemble a mountain of some sort and will literally be covered in rockwork and other thematic elements.

The C-Ticket boat ride is only shown in part (a very small part of what can be assumed to be a much longer boat ride). The rest of the ride will likely be under the exterior part of the mountain (north face of building), since guests for the E-Ticket climb a ramp (with a 1:13 slope - making the entire queue wheelchair accessible) and enter the main show building at the 3rd floor, 23' above ground level.

The C-Ticket will have it's own queue, and the E-Ticket clearly has its own queue, and all theaters exit down stairways and usher guests back out a single exit point at the north face of the building. There is no cross connection between these two attractions. They are mutually exclusive, and one is not a pre-show for the other.

Again, the ride system for the E-Ticket is not clear at all. In the Mechanical Narrative, seats can be identified, but quantities are indiscernible. It is 100% clear that each theater will have 3 tiers of seating, each 12' apart, vertically. It is likely that the carriage may in fact travel up and down, but all guests are looking forward at one arced screen, like in Soarin.

The E-Ticket is most assuredly a 3D experience, simply because there are rooms on the floorplan labeled GLASSES STORAGE and GLASSES CLEANING. Kind of a dead giveaway.

There are many ride control rooms, a control tower, and several Electrical Rooms on the lower BOH (Back of House) levels. If they're going to use a Jim Cameron produced film using his Morpho technology, they will indeed have the massive electrical and telecommunication infrastructure to operate it.

This attraction/land will require a large Cast. There are multi-seat restrooms, a cast break room, and even a cast deployment room. The BOH floor in this building will likely be the home base for all Cast working this land.

And to reiterate, what is shown on these plans could be for literally anything. It could become a Little Mermaid attraction. It could become Avatar. It could become a giant flight simulation movie putting the guest in the role of a butterfly. It could be for something none of us have even dreamed of. Perhaps even concepts from Beastly Kingdom. Regardless of the rumors, insider information, renderings, talks of Cameron being in Anaheim - these drawings have absolutely NO firm reference to or promise of an Avatar land. I can't make that more clear. These plans have been so carefully prepared that this facility could have any video plopped into the projectors with a new ride vehicle program - and it becomes anything. And a boat ride.....in an Animal Park.....could be ANYTHING.

Everything I've said above is true and factual (except for my obvious editorials and assumptions, which I've called out). This is not opinion. This is fact based on my professional review of the plans, narratives, scopes of work, and other documents - as of this moment in time.

Nothing has been filed with the drainage board. I don't believe any site development plans have been issued to anyone. All we know is that FotLK might move, and they flew one test balloon in the area where this would go. That's all we know, until Disney says otherwise, or they actually build it.

If anyone would like additional clarifications, or if I missed one of the misnomers going around, feel free to reply (or better yet, PM me). I will not disclose how I obtained the drawings, but I will make note that the construction industry can be tight knit. Florida and Indiana and California may be worlds apart geographically, but not in the electronic world.

The end.

 

[BJCool]

From WDWMagic

Environment and rockwork specialist Zsolt Hormay recruited back to Imagineering to produce AVATARland exterior environments

Walt Disney Imagineering has recruited back to the company legendary rockwork and environment specialist Zsolt Hormay to produce the exterior environments for the upcoming AVATARland at Disney's Animal Kingdom.

Zsolt has been involved in Disney's most elaborate and spectacular exteriors in the past 20 years, including Mysterious Island at Tokyo DisneySea, the Tree of Life at Disneys Animal Kingdom, Twilight Zone Tower of Terror at Disney's Hollywood Studios, and Big Thunder Mountain at Disneyland Paris.

Zsolt Hormay will be working under Joe Rohde, the creative lead on the AVATAR project.

 

[jtsalien]

I have no doubt in my mind that this will be visually stunning. The mountain and rock work done recently by Disney has been fabulous. But making a 3D Soarin' just doesn't wow me. Hopefully there's more we don't know. But so far signs are pointing to Disney still not getting it.

 

[TheMackMachine]

I have no doubt in my mind that this will be visually stunning. The mountain and rock work done recently by Disney has been fabulous. But making a 3D Soarin' just doesn't wow me. Hopefully there's more we don't know. But so far signs are pointing to Disney still not getting it.

It looks to me that their theming has been better than their rides as of late. On theming alone, I would go to Avatar and FLE, but their rides have been turning me off, if these plans are correct.