The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[Nick]

On to the positives... the new costume is excellent, albeit, a bit goofy from the top. Sam needed development, and he got it. I didn't envision him as Cap as I did Bucky but the last episode (especially the speech to the senator) were very Captain America to me. John Walker was excellently done. I hope Sam gets better stories this time around, and really gets the opportunity to lead the MCU going forward.

And that's why this show was 100% necessary. I don't think we could have just turned the page, Steve is old now (dead? They don’t seem to ever directly answer this), now Sam's Cap over the course of a movie. And it actually has nothing to do with him being a black man for me. To me, the Captain America mantle belongs to Steve Rodgers and Steve only, so anyone who took over was going to feel wrong. John felt wrong. Bucky would've maybe felt more like an obvious choice since they've been friends since WWII, but Sam has Steve's optimism about America and he's sort of that scrappy kid too, he just never got the serum. Bucky has killed god knows how many people, he could never take the mantle and he doesn't have the same optimism that both Steve and Sam have. He's missing certain qualities for the job, much like John was.

We can criticize certain points of the show here and there, but the fact that they nailed Sam being a believable Cap is all that matters coming out of this show, imo. Now they can move on and I can actually call him Cap now and believe it when I say it, too.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

I think the key with Sam becoming cap, is to show the one thing that made Erskine saw with Steve as the best choice for the serum in The First Avenger:

He wanted someone, to be not just a good soldier, but a good man. Continuously throughout the MCU, and especially here; we see Sam Wilson show that he isn't just that of the military. He would often resort to that of the diplomatic element, due to his service as a counselor for veterans from The First Avenger; and his chat with Karli in Europe.

He would rather ensure the safety of others, and to ensure the mission is done in a way that results in no-one getting majorly hurt. And while Steve did eventually get more brutal in some ways; he still maintained the good that Erskine had saw at the Stark Expo site. I really hope Sam doesn't get the serum, as it shows a much more human side to the matter (even more than Spider-Man, out of all the heroes in the MCU); in that he isn't a super soldier, or a witch; or a teenage who has superstrength and the ability to traverse through terrains regardless of the degree of the surface. He is human.

 

[Nick]

I think the key with Sam becoming cap, is to show the one thing that made Erskine saw with Steve as the best choice for the serum in The First Avenger:

He wanted someone, to be not just a good soldier, but a good man. Continuously throughout the MCU, and especially here; we see Sam Wilson show that he isn't just that of the military. He would often resort to that of the diplomatic element, due to his service as a counselor for veterans from The First Avenger; and his chat with Karli in Europe.

He would rather ensure the safety of others, and to ensure the mission is done in a way that results in no-one getting majorly hurt. And while Steve did eventually get more brutal in some ways; he still maintained the good that Erskine had saw at the Stark Expo site. I really hope Sam doesn't get the serum, as it shows a much more human side to the matter (even more than Spider-Man, out of all the heroes in the MCU); in that he isn't a super soldier, or a witch; or a teenage who has superstrength and the ability to traverse through terrains regardless of the degree of the surface. He is human.

I don't think Sam will ever get the serum, mainly because, unless Sharon has more (I do wonder if she has taken it...) then there's none left and no one left to make it. Of course "Sharon" could also be a Skrull. What I do think it is possible that we see him become a quasi-Black Panther and is given one of those heart shaped herbs from Wakanda, that gives you the power of the Black Panther (over time). Or maybe they would put it into his suit?

I would prefer him staying as is, but I feel like he's at a level only slightly above Hawkeye right now as far as how powerful he is in hand to hand combat and something will lead to him powering up. Although like I said before, he's already like a cross between Falcon, Cap, and Iron Man, so I guess he'll probably stick to the air more and Sam's Cap will probably be more like Falcon and Iron Man than a traditional Steve Rodgers Cap. Although like I said, I hate that it's becoming a trend to be like, "They aren't cool enough... give them an Iron Man suit!", just like they did with Spiderman and many other characters have Stark tech. And I know Sam's look is Wakanda tech, but it doesn't look any different than if Tony Stark had designed it, other than a few vibranium maneuvers they added in.

 

[quinnmac000]

Sam already said he would never take the serum if offered the chance.

 

[Nick]

Sam already said he would never take the serum if offered the chance.

I know that. And that Wakandan herb, if they offered it to him, is not the serum. And that power can be removed from the body, unlike the serum. The two are completely different.

I wouldn't want him taking the serum, but i'm just saying I can see Wakanda offering the power of the Black Panther to him some day down the line if he needs it. That is as long as the Black Panther (likely Shuri or M'baku, imo) approves of it. If this happened, it would probably be in a situation where is in desperate need of a power up and he promises to bring the power back to them for it to be removed from his body.
--------------
Separately.... this is just a hunch, but I think the next time we may see Sharon is in Armor Wars. The premise of the show is as follows. Seems like something the Power Broker may play a big role in.

According to Marvel Studios chief Kevin Feige, “Armor Wars” will center on “Tony Stark’s worst nightmare” when his technology falls into the wrong hands. Cheadle will reprise his role as James “Rhodey” Rhodes that he most recently played in “Avengers: Endgame.”

 

[Jerroddragon]

Into the Spider Verse Addressed this...anyone can be a hero

Its not about just the powers but what you stand for and are you willing to help.

 

[Nick]

Into the Spider Verse Addressed this...anyone can be a hero

Its not about just the powers but what you stand for and are you willing to help.

Of course. Hell, Sam has no business being in this world if we're being honest, it's mostly pure luck how things happened. We first met him in the movies as he was hosting a PTSD meeting that Steve stops in on, but Sam has the heart and fight of a hero. But the MCU is always going to level up the villains as they go along, which means the heroes need to upgrade to match. Anyone can be a hero, but not just anyone can fight Thanos and survive.

Then again, Tony Stark was as mortal as anyone, it just so happened that he was in an Iron Man suit that was highly technologically savvy, much like Sam's new Cap suit. But Tony Stark had the resources to do that because he was rich AF.

 

[Magic Feather]

Separately.... this is just a hunch, but I think the next time we may see Sharon is in Armor Wars. The premise of the show is as follows. Seems like something the Power Broker may play a big role in.

Honestly forgot that Armor Wars existed. That said, the mid-Credits Scene literally sounds like the backstory of why Armor Wars would happen. If anything, I'm going to be shocked if that isn't the next project for that character.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Of course. Hell, Sam has no business being in this world if we're being honest, it's mostly pure luck how things happened. We first met him in the movies as he was hosting a PTSD meeting that Steve stops in on, but Sam has the heart and fight of a hero. But the MCU is always going to level up the villains as they go along, which means the heroes need to upgrade to match. Anyone can be a hero, but not just anyone can fight Thanos and survive.

Then again, Tony Stark was as mortal as anyone, it just so happened that he was in an Iron Man suit that was highly technologically savvy, much like Sam's new Cap suit. But Tony Stark had the resources to do that because he was rich AF.

To be fair besides Captain Marvel and maybe Wanda...no one could beat Thanos...not even the big three all powered up could kill him.

I also less care about Power and more about do I like the villain I like Zemo and Killmonger and both are normal dudes. I hope Dr Droom while more powerful then them is more about making him likable over what hsi power is

 

[Nick]

Honestly forgot that Armor Wars existed. That said, the mid-Credits Scene literally sounds like the backstory of why Armor Wars would happen. If anything, I'm going to be shocked if that isn't the next project for that character.

Yeah, when you read just that short little synopsis on what Armor Wars is about (tech falling into the wrong hands), it's really hard for me to think that Sharon won't be a main player in that storyline as a double agent. Filming on Armor Wars was supposed to start this month, not sure if it has yet. It would be interesting to see John Walker show up in that show as well. Or maybe we get our first glimpse of Riri? Thinking about the possibilities, that show has me pretty excited now.

 

[Nick]

Watched the finale for a proper second time after letting it simmer for a few days. I've got to say, for as much nitpicking as I did, after having seen it and knowing what happens now and not being let down by certain creative choices they either did or didn't make, this was an extremely fun episode on second watch.

I do hope next time we see Sam though they've fine tuned his Cap suit as it seems a bit puffy and tbh, it's overly white, which isn't a slimming color on anyone. And while I understand that Anthony Mackie has a bit more of a thicker, athletic type of build than someone like Chris Evans and Wyatt Russell who have skinnier builds (not saying Mackie is overweight, he just has a different type of build, so the suit is gonna look different), there has to be a way to make it look more slimming to the eye.

 

[Jamesh22]

Watched the finale for a proper second time after letting it simmer for a few days. I've got to say, for as much nitpicking as I did, after having seen it and knowing what happens now and not being let down by certain creative choices they either did or didn't make, this was an extremely fun episode on second watch.

I do hope next time we see Sam though they've fine tuned his Cap suit as it seems a bit puffy and tbh, it's overly white, which isn't a slimming color on anyone. And while I understand that Anthony Mackie has a bit more of a thicker, athletic type of build than someone like Chris Evans and Wyatt Russell who have skinnier builds (not saying Mackie is overweight, he just has a different type of build, so the suit is gonna look different), there has to be a way to make it look more slimming to the eye.

He looked like he was auditioning to be the new Optimus Prime walkaround at Universal.

The suit needs a lot of work, Love Mackie though

 

[Nick]

He looked like he was auditioning to be the new Optimus Prime walkaround at Universal.

The suit needs a lot of work, Love Mackie though

The suit is also just a lot bigger in general than his Falcon suit, making him stick out more. The wings are almost cartoonishly big. But it's his first Cap suit, so i'm sure in Cap 4 we'll see something much sleeker.

 

[deadbydawn]

I haven't done a re-watch of the finale yet, but damn did I love this show. This was the one that I was least excited for during the announcements but every week I was pleasantly surprised. I really love what Marvel is doing with these shows in terms of character development. I think the second to last episode was probably my favorite of the series, but I loved Sam's speech near the end of the finale.

Like most, I'm not entirely in love with the new suit but like everything in the MCU it will probably change by the next time we see it.

I've been critical of the Flag Smashers a lot, but I don't think that they were terrible. I do think Karli being so incomprehensible was on purpose because she is just a teenager leading a rebellion. The Flag Smashers also raised interesting philosophical questions that lead to some absolutely GREAT scenes with Sam/Karli or Sam talking to the Senator that really proved why he's Cap.

That all said, while you could understand where they were coming from and it made for an interesting philosophical conversation, everything we got from them was extremely surface level. Karli sort of repeats the same stuff over and over. We never get a good look inside with deeper conversations and it's sort of a shame because with how good the writing was on certain parts of this show, for them to just drop the ball on the Flag Smashers (and Shannon) is almost criminal.

Honestly, this was probably my biggest "issue" with the show as well. I didn't dislike the Flag Smashers entirely and actually found their intro to be pretty interesting but I did find their overall scenes to be a little boring a few episodes in. Sidenote: did that scene where Karli is taking off on the plane feel like an episode of like, 24 or something to you? It sure did to me haha.

 

[Nick]

I haven't done a re-watch of the finale yet, but damn did I love this show. This was the one that I was least excited for during the announcements but every week I was pleasantly surprised. I really love what Marvel is doing with these shows in terms of character development. I think the second to last episode was probably my favorite of the series, but I loved Sam's speech near the end of the finale.

Based on what we've seen so far and what we know is coming up, these shows are basically origin stories/character studies. Even with characters we already knew like Wanda and Sam, they were side characters before their series began and by the end, both got a new suit and were given their new superhero name. So even with characters we've already seen they're managing to do origin stories.

Loki will be a bit different, but then Ms. Marvel and Hawkeye fall right back into the origin type of story.

 

[quinnmac000]

No, Bucky Wasn’t Revealing He’s Bi in That ‘Falcon and Winter Soldier’ Scene, Says Director

"Falcon and Winter Soldier" director Kari Skogland said that a scene where Bucky talks about dating sites is not intended to reveal he's bi.

variety.com

 

[Jerroddragon]

Never thought he was Bi...so glad they aren't trying to make everyone unique. Some guys just perf the ladies, some like both and some like guys

 

[deadbydawn]

Based on what we've seen so far and what we know is coming up, these shows are basically origin stories/character studies. Even with characters we already knew like Wanda and Sam, they were side characters before their series began and by the end, both got a new suit and were given their new superhero name. So even with characters we've already seen they're managing to do origin stories.

Loki will be a bit different, but then Ms. Marvel and Hawkeye fall right back into the origin type of story.

Totally. I'm way into it! I recently started a re-watch of the MCU as I do from time to time, and I like what these shows do for overall larger story.

 

[Nick]

 

[Nick]

This came for me today! It was fairly cheap (around $35) so the limited movement doesn't bother me and as you can see in the first picture, while it does like nice, there's something to be desired with the paint job. Either way, I bought this more as a display piece, so those little paint scratches from up close don't go noticed. I'm not a big collector in this type of sense, this is only the second real display figure that I have. But I saw something for this online and knew I had to have it.