The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[Jerroddragon]

Killmonger, although awesome, needed to die for his character arc.

"Just bury me in the ocean with my ancestors that jumped from the ships because they knew death was better than bondage."

No way he was gonna be a prisoner...

Maybe but maybe he would lead a revolution from inside the prison. Also could make it where it was part of the snap so he wasn't really in prion long enough to end himself.

Zimo is also ready to die but yet keeping on to hope he can be useful. I think they could have found a way to make it work and he would be a great leader of a team

 

[MrBlonde]

Thunderbolts is sounding like a real possibility from Marvel's article about Val's intro

‘The Falcon and The Winter Soldier’: Julia Louis-Dreyfus Joins as Valentina Allegra de Fontaine

Star Wyatt Russell and the filmmakers give us a glimpse into the latest character to join the Marvel Cinematic Universe!

www.marvel.com

Spoiler: Discussion over role of cameo from E5

"Whenever we talked about Valentina, even in the writer's room, she was sort of a more acerbic, funnier, but darker Nick Fury,” explained Moore. “Someone who knows her secrets, who's not afraid to operate in the moral gray area, but maybe who isn't as inherently altruistic.”

“Having a character like Valentina in the show, and actually in the MCU, is really interesting because I think she'll be making more waves sooner rather than later,” teased Moore.

 

[Nick]

Thunderbolts is sounding like a real possibility from Marvel's article about Val's intro

‘The Falcon and The Winter Soldier’: Julia Louis-Dreyfus Joins as Valentina Allegra de Fontaine

Star Wyatt Russell and the filmmakers give us a glimpse into the latest character to join the Marvel Cinematic Universe!

www.marvel.com

Spoiler: Discussion over role of cameo from E5

"Whenever we talked about Valentina, even in the writer's room, she was sort of a more acerbic, funnier, but darker Nick Fury,” explained Moore. “Someone who knows her secrets, who's not afraid to operate in the moral gray area, but maybe who isn't as inherently altruistic.”

“Having a character like Valentina in the show, and actually in the MCU, is really interesting because I think she'll be making more waves sooner rather than later,” teased Moore.

Well she's in Black Widow, but I guess that's the past, so that's not causing "waves" on the present day MCU.

I think Thunderbolts is pretty inevitable at this point though. They're not actually being all that subtle about it either, as there's no way in any universe that the Dora Milaje should be taking Zemo to The Raft other than plot convenience to leave him with Thunderbolt Ross. Zemo is someone who killed their king, there's no reason (again, beyond plot convenience) that they would take him anywhere other than back to Wakanda with them so that they can watch over him.

 

[Nick]

Not to make a mountain out of a molehill, but apparently Marvel is submitting Falcon and the Winter Soldier in for the Best Drama Series category as opposed to WandaVision, which is being submitted for Best Limited Series. It could be nothing and possibly just so that they aren't competing against each other in the same category, but Best Drama Series suggests that it's more than a miniseries and it has a future.

I'm hoping we get some sort of confirmation on that either with the episode tomorrow or on GMA Monday morning. I like the thought that @AlexanderMBush had of calling a second season Captain America and the White Wolf. With Sam taking up the mantle (although if he'll want to be called Cap is a question I have), and Bucky looking to get rid of that last part of the Winter Soldier, the show's name seems very specific to this season and in a season 2, we sort of would see them both starting off kind of fresh.

‘The Falcon and the Winter Soldier’ Will Run as a Drama Series at 2021 Emmys — Exclusive

"Falcon and Winter Soldier" will run as a Drama Series at the 2021 Emmys, avoiding a match-up with "WandaVision" in the Limited Series race.

www.indiewire.com

 

[AlexanderMBush]

Not to make a mountain out of a molehill, but apparently Marvel is submitting Falcon and the Winter Soldier in for the Best Drama Series category as opposed to WandaVision, which is being submitted for Best Limited Series. It could be nothing and possibly just so that they aren't competing against each other in the same category, but Best Drama Series suggests that it's more than a miniseries and it has a future.

I'm hoping we get some sort of confirmation on that either with the episode tomorrow or on GMA Monday morning. I like the thought that @AlexanderMBush had of calling a second season Captain America and the White Wolf. With Sam taking up the mantle (although if he'll want to be called Cap is a question I have), and Bucky looking to get rid of that last part of the Winter Soldier, the show's name seems very specific to this season and in a season 2, we sort of would see them both starting off kind of fresh.

‘The Falcon and the Winter Soldier’ Will Run as a Drama Series at 2021 Emmys — Exclusive

"Falcon and Winter Soldier" will run as a Drama Series at the 2021 Emmys, avoiding a match-up with "WandaVision" in the Limited Series race.

www.indiewire.com

I think calling Season Two by that of Captain America and White Wolf, makes a lot more sense when you also consider in the fact that Sam gave his wings to Torres, who becomes Falcon after Sam becomes Captain America in the comic.

With Sam very much likely taking Steve's mantle; and with those from the Dora Milaje not even calling Bucky that of The Winter Soldier (only Zemos has been the one in previous moments); it makes way too much sense for the shift to happen by the end of this season.

Would also open the door for Sam teaching Torres how to pilot the Falcon wings for the second season in the process.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Not to make a mountain out of a molehill, but apparently Marvel is submitting Falcon and the Winter Soldier in for the Best Drama Series category as opposed to WandaVision, which is being submitted for Best Limited Series. It could be nothing and possibly just so that they aren't competing against each other in the same category, but Best Drama Series suggests that it's more than a miniseries and it has a future.

I'm hoping we get some sort of confirmation on that either with the episode tomorrow or on GMA Monday morning. I like the thought that @AlexanderMBush had of calling a second season Captain America and the White Wolf. With Sam taking up the mantle (although if he'll want to be called Cap is a question I have), and Bucky looking to get rid of that last part of the Winter Soldier, the show's name seems very specific to this season and in a season 2, we sort of would see them both starting off kind of fresh.

‘The Falcon and the Winter Soldier’ Will Run as a Drama Series at 2021 Emmys — Exclusive

"Falcon and Winter Soldier" will run as a Drama Series at the 2021 Emmys, avoiding a match-up with "WandaVision" in the Limited Series race.

www.indiewire.com

I'm sure their will be "better" shows but for a super hero this this works really well.

The effects and fighting feel like a film, the writing is well done on everyone from the heroes to the "villains" and made Zemo just such a fun character I hope he is not killed off anytime soon.

I think Wanda is a solid show but this one just works a little bit better and so far not many generic bad guys just people being pushed to do bad things. While Wanda/Vision were I think just as well written as Sam/Bucky overall the writing on many of the secondary characters in Wanda just wasn't as well done. I hope they can win for something with music for Wanda, because they did a great job on the theme songs.

 

[Nick]

I said this last week, but before the episode, just want to firmly plant my flag that Sharon is NOT the Power Broker. I also hope that Sam's new suit has a new red wing!

As for the post-credits scene, I hope we either get Zemo or maybe - maybe - a scene quickly showing Eli Bradley and setting him up as a major player in season 2. Also wonder if we see or hear anything from Old Man Cap in this episode. Sam said he was "gone" last episode, but what the hell does "gone" mean in this context? It's only been 6 months since Steve handed the shield to Sam initially at this point.

 

[joelbryant11]

Holy crap, that was a heck of a finale.

 

[Nick]

Holy crap, that was a heck of a finale.

Something just felt off about this episode. I still enjoyed it quite a bit as there was still a lot of cool things, but the story seemed like it could've used an extra 20 minutes at the least, if not another episode. I just thought the episode highlighted how little I cared about the flag smashers.

Spoiler

Here's some spoilery stuff I just wanted to mention:

- Sam looks great as Cap, but I hate that he's basically Iron Man/Cap/Falcon all combined into one character basically. What I like about Steve Rodgers as a character is that all he needs is that shield. Of course he has the Serum and Sam doesn't so Same needs more protection, but I just don't like that he's like a 3-in-1 character now.

- John Walker was extremely likable this episode and looked good as US Agent.

- Sharon being the Power Broker was a bit predictable for my taste, however, I went from upset that she's the Power Broker to REALLY intrigued now that she's pardoned and will be getting her old post back while still being the Power Broker.

- Like I said above, this episode made me realize how poorly the flag smashers were developed, but Sam's monologue to that Senator was some great stuff.

- I loved that short little montage sequence near the end showing Bucky at that picnic. He looked really happy. At the beginning of the series, Bucky is angry at Sam for giving up the Shield because that was the closest thing he had to a family, but now he sort of seems to have finally found a family.

- So we got a title change to Captain America and the Winter Soldier, I just don't understand the logic behind sticking with Winter Soldier instead of White Wolf, though. I feel like by the end of this episode, Bucky kind of has finally put the Winter Soldier behind him.

 

[HalfGlass]

I really enjoyed the episode and thought it wrapped everything up well! Only a couple things I didn’t like...

Spoiler

I fluctuated between “that’s awesome” and “that looks like it’s from a CW show” with the new Cap costume for Sam.

I also like Sam a lot as a character and the ending was extremely touching with his tribute to Isaiah Bradley. But...from a personality perspective he doesn’t come off like a leader to me, but instead more preachy. Steve had values he argued for (it’s basically what Civil War was all about), but he never gave monologues about his feelings. I think the big speech in this episode bordered on that. It was powerful, but also went on longer than it should. I get that it’s what the themes of the show have been leading to, but I don’t know, just my personal opinion, I’m sure others love it. I’m just not sure how to feel about him as a potential leader of the Avengers at some point. But maybe they don’t have that in store for him.

 

[Magic Feather]

Something just felt off about this episode. I still enjoyed it quite a bit as there was still a lot of cool things, but the story seemed like it could've used an extra 20 minutes at the least, if not another episode. I just thought the episode highlighted how little I cared about the flag smashers.

Spoiler

Here's some spoilery stuff I just wanted to mention:

- Sam looks great as Cap, but I hate that he's basically Iron Man/Cap/Falcon all combined into one character basically. What I like about Steve Rodgers as a character is that all he needs is that shield. Of course he has the Serum and Sam doesn't so Same needs more protection, but I just don't like that he's like a 3-in-1 character now.

- John Walker was extremely likable this episode and looked good as US Agent.

- Sharon being the Power Broker was a bit predictable for my taste, however, I went from upset that she's the Power Broker to REALLY intrigued now that she's pardoned and will be getting her old post back while still being the Power Broker.

- Like I said above, this episode made me realize how poorly the flag smashers were developed, but Sam's monologue to that Senator was some great stuff.

- I loved that short little montage sequence near the end showing Bucky at that picnic. He looked really happy. At the beginning of the series, Bucky is angry at Sam for giving up the Shield because that was the closest thing he had to a family, but now he sort of seems to have finally found a family.

- So we got a title change to Captain America and the Winter Soldier, I just don't understand the logic behind sticking with Winter Soldier instead of White Wolf, though. I feel like by the end of this episode, Bucky kind of has finally put the Winter Soldier behind him.

Spoiler

I feel like maybe we'll get Bucky's new moniker in BP2. I could effectively see that movie being Shuri as new BP, Bucky as White Wolf, and the Dora of course.
Maybe a fun after credits scene with something like "White Wolf will return in Captain America and the Winter Soldier" and then some transition happens to make the title change to "Captain America and the White Wolf." That said, I can't feel like the Captain America name should transition the character to primarily being featured on feature length films. Having the premier superhero headlining a streaming show instead of a film feels a tad off.

I can't help but feel Sharon as Power Broker was a little predictable, but also riddled with plot holes. Why would she have put bounties on Sam and Bucky just to fend off the bounty hunters? That said, seeing Sharon rise into what I'm assuming will be either a villainous or frenemy role will be interesting to see develop.

I found it interesting that this episode had a ~30 min denouement while WandaVision got 5-10 min. I assume that is because MoM was expected to pick up that plot line really shortly after (and still will relatively) while this arc won't be touched again for a while.

Overall, good arc for all characters though and interested to see which ways these plot lines go.

 

[Brian G.]

Really enjoyed the finale, and show overall. The obvious best stuff was everything with Sam and Bucky. Some really strong with Capt. Sam this episode, too.

The lack of a true, entertaining villain hurt the show, where I just didn't care about Carly or the Flag Smashers. The Power Broker twist was too predictable, too.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

For the most part, the finale delivered what I wanted to see, and while I have some issues; it doesn't detract things due to certain spoiler reasons.

Spoiler

- The character progression of John Walker, is absolutely stellar. He isn't a standard villain, and is a soldier; wanting to do what he thinks is best. But at the same time; I want to see him go into a darker turn.
- Like @Nick, I didn't care much for Sharon being Power Broker..until she got pardoned. I extremely wonder if that'll mean for shows like Hawkeye and Armor Wars, as I can easily see her being involved in some way, shape, or form.
- In motion, Sam's suit is great. In stillness? Needs some work.

 

[Jerroddragon]

I liked it, not my all time favorite finale or anything but I can't think of any show that ends stronger than it starts (love Watchmen the show but the finale was not as good as the first episode)

Sam suit I'm not the biggest fan of (I think him in black looks the most badass) butttt thats not the point its when you see this suit it screams Captain America.

The fighting was good and think while Sam is not Steve he has his own way. Steve was a little guy, Sam is someone who while not always openly oppressed is still disliked for no reason just because of how he looks, so they will be different. Sam is his version of Captain America and I think he has started out strong, telling leaders what they need to hear in when your writing a bill who is with you when you sign it the people its affecting or other people in power and the tribute to those who were forgotten is a very cap thing to do.

The series gets an 8.5/10 from me. A great show (I think Wanda is like a 7/7.5 out of ten)
Excited to see what happens next with Zemo and the US agent and also hoping I like Loki near as much as this show for me that show I just think looks cool but have no idea if its for me or not.

 

[joelbryant11]

I’d say Walker is one of the best adversaries/anti-heroes that the MCU has done. So the show did give us one great foil to Bucky and Sam.

I think they changed a lot of the Flag Smasher storyline as a result of Covid, so it never really made the landing it needed to. They would’ve been better served to show flashbacks of what happened to the Flag Smashers when everyone came back, instead of giving Karli the same exact monologue every episode.

Spoiler: Sharon

She’s 1000% a Skrull

 

[Jerroddragon]

Also not sure if its just eh PS5 App but man is it hard to watch post credit scenes...always trys to push me to another show when its at the end end of an episode at least for me

Also hope next season/show the antagonist uses Sam's Empathy as a way to try to beat him

 

[HalfGlass]

Captain America 4 officially in the works with Malcolm Spellman involved.

 

[Nick]

Spoiler

I feel like maybe we'll get Bucky's new moniker in BP2. I could effectively see that movie being Shuri as new BP, Bucky as White Wolf, and the Dora of course.
Maybe a fun after credits scene with something like "White Wolf will return in Captain America and the Winter Soldier" and then some transition happens to make the title change to "Captain America and the White Wolf." That said, I can't feel like the Captain America name should transition the character to primarily being featured on feature length films. Having the premier superhero headlining a streaming show instead of a film feels a tad off.

I can't help but feel Sharon as Power Broker was a little predictable, but also riddled with plot holes. Why would she have put bounties on Sam and Bucky just to fend off the bounty hunters? That said, seeing Sharon rise into what I'm assuming will be either a villainous or frenemy role will be interesting to see develop.

I found it interesting that this episode had a ~30 min denouement while WandaVision got 5-10 min. I assume that is because MoM was expected to pick up that plot line really shortly after (and still will relatively) while this arc won't be touched again for a while.

Overall, good arc for all characters though and interested to see which ways these plot lines go.

So one plot hole I had is that this is set two months before FFH and and there's this big incident breaking out in NYC. Where's Spider-Man or Dr. Strange? Of course I have a feeling this is going to be a minor thing we will just have to overlook in these shows as Strange somehow missed Wanda just across state lines hosting a fake reality, too.

Spoiler

Idk if they'll go with Shuri for BP. I personally think it'll be M'Baku as of now (based on nothing really), but Idk, would Shuri even want to be the BP? Anyway, yeah, I guess I could see Bucky officially get that new moniker in BP2.

 

[Jerroddragon]

I mean...where the hell was War Machine? Lots of heroes mission in action

At least with Wanda it was not national news...it was something hidden but this was on TV and like no one came..lol

 

[HalfGlass]

I mean...where the hell was War Machine? Lots of heroes mission in action

At least with Wanda it was not national news...it was something hidden but this was on TV and like no one came..lol

To be fair - the whole incident was done in probably like 20-30 min.