The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[joelbryant11]

10 time Emmy winner appearing in a role that will have multiple appearances over the next few years is a big deal to me. It didn’t end up being Sebastian Stan playing an evil clone of himself or something like that

 

[Nick]

"It’s now time for Malcolm Spellman to make similarly exciting claims about The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. He’s the showrunner and head writer, so we can safely assume that Spellman isn’t talking about himself when he mentions an “episode five character” who might make you cry."

Yeah, I never believed that. And of course what makes one person cry may not make the entire fandom care.

I personally think Spellman was talking about the Isaiah scene with Sam.

 

[Brian G.]

Yeah, I never believed that. And of course what makes one person cry may not make the entire fandom care.

I personally think Spellman was talking about the Isaiah scene with Sam.

Might have been. The rampant spec for this and WandaVision is getting wild.

 

[Nick]

Might have been. The rampant spec for this and WandaVision is getting wild.

Yeah, people ended up actually getting Luke in Mando and now the Marvel spec is just ridiculous (and to be fair, comments by cast haven’t helped matters).

Like I said, people need to realize the series are just supplemental to the movies. The movies still have to make sense for those that choose not to watch the shows, which means the shows will all be smaller scale things and giving lots of character development.

 

[Brian G.]

10 time Emmy winner appearing in a role that will have multiple appearances over the next few years is a big deal to me. It didn’t end up being Sebastian Stan playing an evil clone of himself or something like that

Yeah, it was great - but the whole "it will make you emotional" comment was my expectation and I'm like... "why would they say that for this character?" haha. Wasn't expecting a huge, new reveal but seeing a brief T'Challa role started to become the rational rumor and where my head was going.

But looking back now, it could've been meant for Isaiah.

 

[HalfGlass]

Yeah, people ended up actually getting Luke in Mando and now the Marvel spec is just ridiculous (and to be fair, comments by cast haven’t helped matters).

Like I said, people need to realize the series are just supplemental to the movies. The movies still have to make sense for those that choose not to watch the shows, which means the shows will all be smaller scale things and giving lots of character development.

My only argument against this is that there’s ways to have other big Marvel players show up and still have it be a supplemental show. For example, if The Hulk showed up at the end of Episode 6 for a final showdown, it wouldn’t make the show any less supplemental, but it would be a cool cameo. They don’t have to reference back to the battle in a future film, just like they probably won’t if Bucky or Sam show up in future Avengers movies.

 

[joelbryant11]

Yeah, it was great - but the whole "it will make you emotional" comment was my expectation and I'm like... "why would they say that for this character?" haha. Wasn't expecting a huge, new reveal but seeing a brief T'Challa role started to become the rational rumor and where my head was going.

But looking back now, it could've been meant for Isaiah.

Ohhh, I gotcha

 

[Legacy]

One way or the other they have a Leia situation to deal with. They’re gonna at least have to show a scene or two of him in BP2.

Black Panther 2 Producer Rules Out Chadwick Boseman Cameo - IGN

A second Marvel producer has further cemented that Chadwick Boseman won't be "resurrected" for a cameo via CG or unused footage.

www.ign.com

 

[Nick]

Black Panther 2 Producer Rules Out Chadwick Boseman Cameo - IGN

A second Marvel producer has further cemented that Chadwick Boseman won't be "resurrected" for a cameo via CG or unused footage.

www.ign.com

No cameo would imply not using old footage or a brother and CGI to bring him back to the screen. What i'm saying is we may get a short flashback sequence using footage from old movies, but we'll see.

 

[joelbryant11]

People aren’t going to be happy with how they handle it no matter what. I don’t envy Coogler in this situation. He has to figure out the Chadwick thing and make a movie that gets as close to the standard set by the first one as possible. But if anyone can land this plane it’s that guy

 

[AlexanderMBush]

To give some non spoiler thoughts

- The creative teams involved with this show, keep, not, missing. And I dunno whether to be happy or scared about that as we reach the finale
- Wyatt Russel continues to be one of the best MCU actors increasingly by the episode. The way they capture him with Wyatt Russel's performance is incredible
- Henry Jackman is absolutely killing it with the motifs and thematic beats in his music.
- trumps Wandavision for me in a landslide on which I prefer.

To get into the more spoilery thoughts:

Spoiler

- The fact that they're leaving the door open with Zemo is great. I sincerely hope with the return of Abomination, Agatha still "existing", and hopefully with US Agent that we see a full on introduction on Thunderbolts into the MCU proper going forward. Would be a nice way to allow a Captain America and White Wolf [F&TWS Season Two] sequel to go on strong.
- Bucky's ladies man charm is finally paying off in the 21st century, and I stan Stan for being able to make it work.
- The entire scene with issiah and Sam was fantastic; allowing us just enough to want more on the second "True" Captain America, though being fine not seeing more.
- The inclusion of Georges is a fun one. I'm curious if that'll mean for the final battle, we'll see Rhodey don War Machine and that'd make things a 3-way fight between Bucky, Sam, and Rhodes; against Georges, Flagsmashers, and US Agent.
- Madame Hydra. Yes.

 

[Nick]

To give some non spoiler thoughts

- The creative teams involved with this show, keep, not, missing. And I dunno whether to be happy or scared about that as we reach the finale
- Wyatt Russel continues to be one of the best MCU actors increasingly by the episode. The way they capture him with Wyatt Russel's performance is incredible
- Henry Jackman is absolutely killing it with the motifs and thematic beats in his music.
- trumps Wandavision for me in a landslide on which I prefer.

To get into the more spoilery thoughts:

Spoiler

- The fact that they're leaving the door open with Zemo is great. I sincerely hope with the return of Abomination, Agatha still "existing", and hopefully with US Agent that we see a full on introduction on Thunderbolts into the MCU proper going forward. Would be a nice way to allow a Captain America and White Wolf [F&TWS Season Two] sequel to go on strong.
- Bucky's ladies man charm is finally paying off in the 21st century, and I stan Stan for being able to make it work.
- The entire scene with issiah and Sam was fantastic; allowing us just enough to want more on the second "True" Captain America, though being fine not seeing more.
- The inclusion of Georges is a fun one. I'm curious if that'll mean for the final battle, we'll see Rhodey don War Machine and that'd make things a 3-way fight between Bucky, Sam, and Rhodes; against Georges, Flagsmashers, and US Agent.
- Madame Hydra. Yes.

Spoiler

- I think a Thunderbolts storyline is a no-brainer. I think it makes for a great origin mini-series on Disney+ before we see the Thunderbolts as the main villain of a movie or something somewhere down the road. A series would also just help to keep in the back of our minds that this group is out there and they're a big threat not to be messed with.

- I definitely think this show is getting a season 2 based on everything Feige has said. Also like I have said, there's no movies we know of where Mackie or Stan are currently working on, which means a second season of this show is logical to keep us up to speed on their whereabouts. I'd estimate we could hear about a season 2 renewal as soon as April 30th when the FatWS episode of Assembled is released.

-And yeah, the short amount of time this series has spent with Isaiah has all been phenomenal. Tbh, I wouldn't mind a flashback at him in his younger days and to actually see him in action as a young super soldier.

 

[Legacy]

I am having the hardest time wrapping around a Medal of Honor recipient getting an Other Than Honorable discharge. MoH recipients are actually saluted by everyone up to four-star general, regardless of their rank. And awards can’t be revoked for something that happened AFTER they were awarded.

As great as the episode was, I’m really struggling with that one thing.

And for real, they’re doing such a great job of writing Walker so that he hits every insufferable, ”mil-bro” character trait it’s remarkable. I know so many people just like him.

 

[Nick]

I am having the hardest time wrapping around a Medal of Honor recipient getting an Other Than Honorable discharge. MoH recipients are actually saluted by everyone up to four-star general, regardless of their rank. And awards can’t be revoked for something that happened AFTER they were awarded.

As great as the episode was, I’m really struggling with that one thing.

And for real, they’re doing such a great job of writing Walker so that he hits every insufferable, ”mil-bro” character trait it’s remarkable. I know so many people just like him.

This wasn't your ordinary military discharge that they were contemplating. Captain America is the #1 symbol of America and John Walker was wearing that suit while still a part of the military. I get that with most people in real life this isn't how it would've gone done maybe, but since he's such a symbol of America and was recorded brutally murdering a man in public, I think they felt they needed to hold him accountable.

Also, Hydra has plans for him as US Agent it seems, and some who voted on that discharge may be hydra for all we know.

 

[Legacy]

This wasn't your ordinary military discharge that they were contemplating. Captain America is the #1 symbol of America and John Walker was wearing that suit while still a part of the military. I get that with most people in real life this isn't how it would've gone done maybe, but since he's such a symbol of America and was recorded brutally murdering a man in public, I think they felt they needed to hold him accountable.

Also, Hydra has plans for him as US Agent it seems, and some who voted on that discharge may be hydra for all we know.

I had no issue with the discharge. Awards and punitive actions (like discharges) are completely separate things. In fact, they smartly made it an Other Than Honorable discharge instead of a Dishonorable—an OTH is a “less severe” discharge that is strictly administrative and typically doesn’t include a court martial. In fact, Walker could still get disability benefits from the VA (which is separate from military benefits). It’s really smart, subtle writing.

It’s really more of a “how would I interact with this precedent?” He still has a Medal of Honor, so military personnel would technically salute him, despite having an OTH. It’s a specific question because there is no precedent for it in reality.

 

[quinnmac000]

I am having the hardest time wrapping around a Medal of Honor recipient getting an Other Than Honorable discharge. MoH recipients are actually saluted by everyone up to four-star general, regardless of their rank. And awards can’t be revoked for something that happened AFTER they were awarded.

As great as the episode was, I’m really struggling with that one thing.

And for real, they’re doing such a great job of writing Walker so that he hits every insufferable, ”mil-bro” character trait it’s remarkable. I know so many people just like him.

Last I checked, the officer who issued the award has the power to revoke it after it was awarded. You can't get it revoked for a drug crime or a traffic ticket but you can get it revoked for violent or horrendeous acts which is what this would fall under.

 

[Nick]

I don't know how I missed the reference initially (as I was just reading the comic recently), but the title of the episode this week "Truth" was a direct reference to the limited comic series Truth: Red, White, and Black, which is the comic origin of Isaiah Bradley.

 

[Legacy]

Last I checked, the officer who issued the award has the power to revoke it after it was awarded. You can't get it revoked for a drug crime or a traffic ticket but you can get it revoked for violent or horrendeous acts which is what this would fall under.

But only for a dishonorable discharge through a court martial. An OTH is a bad conduct discharge, but it’s not a dishonorable. And that is only if the bad conduct takes place prior to receiving the award. They can, “revoke, or recommend the revocation, of an award that would not have been originally approved if subsequent facts had been known at the time of the original approval.” Murdering someone a couple of years after actually receiving the award doesn’t qualify.

Granted, a Medal of Honor is a little different as it’s approved by the President. And multiple Medals of Honor to a single individual is basically impossible. It’s a thought exercise for me.

 

[chris.g]

Hate to be that guy, this episode lost me. I'll see how next week ends but yeah. Very underwhelmed about how this show looks to end.

 

[Nick]

Over/under 45% that we'll see in the end credits next week a confirmation of a Season 2?

Hate to be that guy, this episode lost me. I'll see how next week ends but yeah. Very underwhelmed about how this show looks to end.

Not everyone is gonna like every show. I expect to not like some shows that maybe I was excited for, too.