The Future of Lost Continent (Poseidon Fury closing May 9)

[IzzyB]

I think IOA "feels busier" because the two best attractions at the park are an automatic 60+ minute wait. Forbidden Journey rarely sees hour long waits nowadays (usually at 30 minutes, and becomes a near walk-on most of the morning and afternoon).

IOA just needs non-water, non-thrill rides that can entertain the majority of all demographics. That's the last ingredient needed here to perfect the park.


Sinbad (and Poseidon) were just poorly written and not worth the time when there are far more worthy attractions to choose from. Especially, when the bulk of UOR guests have park to park tickets, most guests would have rather chosen a better show at USF. I think the issue with Bourne is that it's not very repeatable, even with how great the stage tech is.

I can guarantee if you put WaterWorld at IOA, it'll draw capacity crowds. There's demand, heck even Indiana Jones still packs each showtime even with the show's quality reduced.


With that said, with UOR wanting to extend trip durations... IOA is a full day park for thrill-seekers, but for everyone else who isn't interested in water rides or thrills... you can maybe do the park in 2h

I agree only I would say 90+ for me for both those rides every time I am there. Others run 45+ and then other 30+. But with winter months and 3 rides being water rides I feel maybe it was just me going during the Christmas time. It just seems even more insane since most are not riding the water ones and one was down anyways. It just makes the park feel busy with no outlet of a nice no line show outside of Grinchmas. I think that is why Studios is better for me because when it is before 4 and I don't have express I can hit up the shows, simpsons, etc.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

I agree only I would say 90+ for me for both those rides every time I am there. Others run 45+ and then other 30+. But with winter months and 3 rides being water rides I feel maybe it was just me going during the Christmas time. It just seems even more insane since most are not riding the water ones and one was down anyways. It just makes the park feel busy with no outlet of a nice no line show outside of Grinchmas. I think that is why Studios is better for me because when it is before 4 and I don't have express I can hit up the shows, simpsons, etc.

Agree, IOA is in desperate need of non-water ride experiences during the winter (thankfully Grinchmas alleviates some of the lost capacity during Nov/Dec).

All IOA really needs is an indoor family dark ride, a show at the TL theater and a show at Grinch (preferably a theater that Grinch can use). Outside of refurbs to some things (JPRA, improved screens on FJ, Kong issues, and MSHI cleanup), IOA is a fine park.

 

[TheUniC6]

Agree, IOA is in desperate need of non-water ride experiences during the winter (thankfully Grinchmas alleviates some of the lost capacity during Nov/Dec).

All IOA really needs is an indoor family dark ride, a show at the TL theater and a show at Grinch (preferably a theater that Grinch can use). Outside of refurbs to some things (JPRA, improved screens on FJ, Kong issues, and MSHI cleanup), IOA is a fine park.

Since Universal is not quite sure as to the final form Zelda will take, one option could be to do an E ticket for the IP that uses the more modern SCOOP tech on the USB JW ride. That would be far more thrilling than any boat ride they can think of for Zelda.

 

[Clive]

Bourne's problem, IMO, is it's a fading IP that doesn't/can't use its most iconic image: Matt Damon as Jason Bourne. Yes, we see plenty of him during the preshow inside, but his image is absent from all exterior/external signage and advertising. I'd be willing to bet that there are more guests who would enthusiastically recognize and respond to "The Bourne Stuntacular" if they made the connection that this was based on "that Matt Damon grungy spy series."

Almost everyone knew what "Terminator" was referring to right off the bat - plus, they had the iconic skeletal cyborg imagery to play with.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Bourne's problem, IMO, is it's a fading IP that doesn't/can't use its most iconic image: Matt Damon as Jason Bourne. Yes, we see plenty of him during the preshow inside, but his image is absent from all exterior/external signage and advertising. I'd be willing to bet that there are more guests who would enthusiastically recognize and respond to "The Bourne Stuntacular" if they made the connection that this was based on "that Matt Damon grungy spy series."

Almost everyone knew what "Terminator" was referring to right off the bat - plus, they had the iconic skeletal cyborg imagery to play with.

Terminator saw decreased interest towards the end of its run, but I do agree that the facade/exterior isn't the best and doesn't really say anything about what's inside.

 

[TheUniC6]

Terminator saw decreased interest towards the end of its run, but I do agree that the facade/exterior isn't the best and doesn't really say anything about what's inside.

I would argue that at this point in time, Terminator is a dead IP. The last attempts to reboot the franchise with Genesis and Dark Fate both bombed. In fact in response to the fact that James Cameron is writing the script for yet another Terminator reboot, actress Linda Hamilton said she though the story has been done to death and why would anyone bother to reboot it for the umpteenth time.

 

[Clive]

Terminator saw decreased interest towards the end of its run, but I do agree that the facade/exterior isn't the best and doesn't really say anything about what's inside.

Terminator was also arguably a fading IP that became further cheapened with the lackluster reboot attempts. The direct tie to Terminator 2 also dated the attraction, though I think it held on a lot longer in terms of regularly filling the auditorium than Bourne has (not speaking to the quality of either attraction on its own terms).

But... I realize I have contributed to thread drift, and we're in the Poseidon's Fury thread. We can stay on theater capacity and how they affect the parks, but let's at least try to steer this in the right direction.

 

[Mad Dog]

VelociCoaster (1,728) + Skull Island (1,800) + Hagrid's (1,680) = 5,208 THRC
Dueling Dragons (~1,920) and Poseidon's Fury (600-800) = 2,520-2,720 THRC

For the theaters, The Eight Voyage of Sinbad has 1.7K seats and the Toon Lagoon Amphitheatre has 2K seats... 3.7K seats sitting empty. Running 4 shows each day would result in about 14.8K in additional attraction/experience capacity for the day.

So IOA did gain capacity, and most of the newer experiences are mostly utilized. BUT, you could argue that IOA hasn't gained as much capacity overall when taking attendance gains into account.

Attendance Change: 2010 Attendance (5.9M) to 2022 Attendance (11.0M) = 85% Increase
Ride Capacity Change: 2010 Ride Capacity (22.6K THRC) to 2022 Ride Capacity (26.5K THRC) = 17% Increase (Excluded Hogwarts Express).
Total Attraction Capacity Change: 2010 Attraction Capacity (22.6K THRC) to 2022 Attraction Capacity (25.7K THRC) = 14% Increase (Toon Lagoon Theater Excluded, Ended Prior to 2010 & Excluded Hogwarts Express).

However, most significant data point to me is the "average experiences per guest per day" that ultimately determine whether or not the park has enough attraction capacity to provide enough experiences per guest:

• In 2010, with attendance at 5.9M and total daily attraction capacity at 278K, each guest could experience about ~17.2x attractions a day. -> shows you how much Universal was struggling in the 2000s
• In 2022 (and today), attendance at 11.0M and total daily attraction capacity at 318K, each guest can experience about ~10.5x attractions.

For reference, the other Orlando parks (split between all attraction/show capacity & C-E tickets only):

• Magic Kingdom 11.2x (all attractions + shows) | 10.6x (C-E Tickets only)
• Epcot 14.8x (all attractions + shows) | 9.7x (C-E Tickets only)
• Hollywood Studios 9.3x (all attractions + shows) | 6.6x (C-E Tickets only)
• Animal Kingdom 9.8x (all attractions + shows) | 6.6x (C-E Tickets only)
• Universal Studios Florida 9.2x (all attractions + shows) | 7.2x (C-E Tickets only)
• Islands of Adventure 10.5x (all attractions + shows) | 8.2x (C-E Tickets only)

In short, capacity has technically increased, but attendance has skyrocketed so much that the capacity increases aren't as impactful.

I don't think anyone is clamoring for the return of Sinbad or the previous TL shows... but Universal should certainly try at bringing back those online. A capacity increase of 15K would be much appreciated... especially during the hot and stormy Florida days.


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For Additional Details:

• VelociCoaster - 24 Seats X ~50-Sec Dispatch Interval
• Skull Island - 60 Seats X ~120-Sec Dispatch Interval -> 66 seats prior to blocking the first row entirely
• Hagrid's Motorbike - 14 Seats X ~30-sec Dispatch Interval -> this is in ideal operational conditions, well known how temperamental Hagrid can be.
• Dueling Dragons* - 32 Seats X ~120-sec Dispatch Intervals (Unlike Hulk, this ran only 2 trains per track)
• Poseidon's Fury - ~600-800 guests an hour depending on the interval they use that day between shows

*Dueling Dragons had the dual load/unload platforms which actually decreased capacity as they would have to wait for the train to clear unload and then proceed to load + only running 2 trains each.
**Well aware this excludes smaller experiences like Ollivanders, Raptor Encounter and other meet & greets. Their impact to overall park capacity is immaterial.

View attachment 22062


Not as dramatic... FL resident deals are doing wonders right now. June was still relatively busy last year... but there was a significant drop in July/August when it got hotter.


Edit: Please feel free to provide any feedback on anything here, gladly appreciate making my analysis better. Also, want to chime in that a good amount of experiences at IOA are water rides and have tall height requirements... so while capacity is on par with the other parks, certain demographics can't or don't want to experience it. IOA is a thrill-junkie's paradise... outside of that demographic it's lacking.

You've made a number of really excellent posts on this issue. It's something I've voiced often, and completely agree with you. Both Universal and Disney are ''guilty' of nowhere near increasing their capacity to meet the 'huge' attendance increases of the past 14 years. That's a major reason lines were holiday season level during nearly every day in the 18 months of post covid travel. And the Execs wonder why attendance at the Orlando theme parks is in a bit of a downward trend the past five quarters, while travel everywhere is up, including the Ca. parks. Greed has it's downside. Sure, Florida is hot and rainy and uncomfortable. But it's always been hot, rainy and uncomfortable. But it's much worse when the stand by lines are real long.

 

[ThemeParks4Life]

I'm fine with Zelda being postponed until Universal nails the concept, especially when it seems like USF is getting something quicker than anticipated and is in need of another new E ticket much more than IOA. The last thing IOA needs is another "missed potential" land or something with diminishing returns past the first few years like we've been discussing frequently on Kong the past few months.

Regarding the merits of operating Sinbad/Poseidon in the interim, Universal's current budget constraints are already apparent and have been discussed in other threads. Would re-opening two attractions with low guest satisfaction ratings really be a good use of funds, even seasonally?

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Regarding the merits of operating Sinbad/Poseidon in the interim, Universal's current budget constraints are already apparent and have been discussed in other threads. Would re-opening two attractions with low guest satisfaction ratings really be a good use of funds, even seasonally?

Not clamoring for the return of PF or any of the previous stage shows... but the TL Theater is ripe for use. It's a basic stage that can fit 2K guests with very little alteration needed to accommodate a new stage show.

Edit: On the budget topic... UDE in 2023 generated $8.9B in revenue and $3.3B in EBITDA... 37% margin. A $30M production would cost 0.9% of their EBITDA. I get Universal is building a whole new park/resort that will cost $6B+, but I see no indication of financial stress within the company.

 

[IzzyB]

I'm fine with Zelda being postponed until Universal nails the concept, especially when it seems like USF is getting something quicker than anticipated and is in need of another new E ticket much more than IOA. The last thing IOA needs is another "missed potential" land or something with diminishing returns past the first few years like we've been discussing frequently on Kong the past few months.

Regarding the merits of operating Sinbad/Poseidon in the interim, Universal's current budget constraints are already apparent and have been discussed in other threads. Would re-opening two attractions with low guest satisfaction ratings really be a good use of funds, even seasonally?

I personally was not asking for those things to be opened as is. I am asking for some kind of show to be put into one of the two theaters. It could be seasonal and different between Christmas and summer, but something is needed for peak times in the park for capacity.

 

[wutisgood]

I wish they hadn't gotten rid of Poseidon at least untill plans were more locked down for replacement attractions.

 

[ReelJustice]

I wish they hadn't gotten rid of Poseidon at least untill plans were more locked down for replacement attractions.

Building was/is in disrepair. They made a business decision.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Building was/is in disrepair. They made a business decision.

Fine with that decision, but at least add entertainment in front of the attraction or elsewhere in the park to alleviate its loss. Something similar to the Beat Builders will do.

 

[Brian G.]

Fine with that decision, but at least add entertainment in front of the attraction or elsewhere in the park to alleviate its loss. Something similar to the Beat Builders will do.

bring back Poseidon's Pals! /s

 

[ReelJustice]

Fine with that decision, but at least add entertainment in front of the attraction or elsewhere in the park to alleviate its loss. Something similar to the Beat Builders will do.

They cannot afford to clean 3D glasses for Kong.

 

[wutisgood]

Wait they got rid of 3d on Kong? The ride was made for 3d? Minions has been a worthless ride since taking away the 3d. Kong would not be far above that mostly due to the animatronic.

Didn't they do a big refurb on Poseidon not long before it closed?

 

[Jake S]

Wait they got rid of 3d on Kong? The ride was made for 3d? Minions has been a worthless ride since taking away the 3d. Kong would not be far above that mostly due to the animatronic.

Didn't they do a big refurb on Poseidon not long before it closed?

Yes.

Yes.

During the refurb they discovered how problematic the building was and then decided to pull the plug.

 

[belloq87]

They cannot afford to clean 3D glasses for Kong.

I mean... they absolutely can afford it.

They're choosing to compromise the attraction to save a few cents.

 

[Cwoolboy]

Yeah, it broke my weird little heart to walk by an abandoned PF on my last trip. I always loved the attraction despite it's flaws. The façade and theming were top-notch, and getting to walk into that building always provided a thrill for me. Was the building structurally unstable or in danger of collapse or something?