The Future of PortAventura

[tommyhawkins]

I take this as a big ol’ “Whoops”

yes Greg wasn't trying to get himself fired yesterday, he had no idea of the connotations

 

[Michael S]

I've been informed that the third person that was with Page Thompson and the park director David Garcia was Fernando Aldecoa, "Managing Director Operations & Finance" as per his linkedin profile

I’m not doubting the possibility of a sale, but I’m just curious. Could it be potentially them seeing how operations work in Europe from a successful and reputable park they’ve had ties to before, and still have licensing agreements with?

Whether or not any projects are set in stone, I could see that being a thing. Just to see if it’s a viable market.

Kind of how Walt Disney would be visiting Knotts and other amusement parks to see how Disneyland should run. Just a thought.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

Also something to consider with UK seemingly a go—perhaps Universal is taking these visits to take notes and understand the demographics they are walking into?

Would also spark things to be more friendly among executives. Especially if the consensus at the time is to just take a windows glance.

 

[Michael S]

Also something to consider with UK seemingly a go—perhaps Universal is taking these visits to take notes and understand the demographics they are walking into?

Would also spark things to be more friendly among executives. Especially if the consensus at the time is to just take a windows glance.

You said it better than I did lol but that was the point I was trying to make. My brain isn’t functioning that well after ten hours of rigging a stage with thousands of pounds of cable and lights today

 

[AlexanderMBush]

You said it better than I did lol but that was the point I was trying to make. My brain isn’t functioning that well after ten hours of rigging a stage with thousands of pounds of cable and lights today

Listen I am on 13 hours of working in a produce department; I got the lighter end of the stick than you do xD.

But yeah--just because Page Thompson is touring PAW, and potentially other parks in the EU and UK; that doesn't mean she is going to buy them. She may be aware of the PAW sale (would likely have too due to the licensing of Universal characters)--but considering what has been spoken on the NVUL thread (And seen with stuff like the land purchasing); my mind thinks they are getting a basis and understanding for how to operate in Europe. Especially in a modern post Brexit EU and UK respectively.

 

[UniloveEU]

Also something to consider with UK seemingly a go—perhaps Universal is taking these visits to take notes and understand the demographics they are walking into?

I doubt that demographics of guests in PortAventura are representative for a possible London opening. If you ever been to PortAventura, you know that you have a very different audience here. It’s Spain, it’s near Salou, a big and well-known beach and summer vacation destination. It’s almost little Florida. And very different to London. So they also draw different types of guests. This seems a bit far-fetched to me… A licensing meeting? Sure, possible. But running around as they did in summer and taking notes and photos from every little detail of the park (local fans reported that in the PA communities)? Mh.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

I doubt that demographics of guests in PortAventura are representative for a possible London opening. If you ever been to PortAventura, you know that you have a very different audience. It’s Spain, it’s near Salou, a big and well-known beach and summer vacation destination. It’s almost little Florida. And very different to London. This seems a bit far-fetched to me… A licensing meeting? Sure, possible. But running around as they did in summer and taking notes and photos from every little detail of the park (local fans reported that in the PA communities)? Mh.

I'm not just talking about PAW being on this "Tour" (and this is more pure speculation on my part--something you guys seem to be doing quite well).

Outside of their limited experience operating that of Universal Mediterranea in a different administration and era of the company; and outside of EU companies like Sky--they have no base understanding of what will be needed for the sake of drawing people to that of a tourist destination in the continent.

They have examples of international markets; but the differences between that of Asia to EU are vast in scale and scope. And since Mediterranea, parks like Phantasialand, Europa Park, Energylandia, and the respective Movie Parks (like Movie Park Germany or even WB Madrid now that Parque Reiundos has decided to invest) have all come into place countering and offering differing experiences that attract guests regardless of where.

Getting an understanding of your opponents, a respect for them; can be key and vital to the process in allowing them to flesh out what a "Universal Europe" now looks like in the modern day practices. And what would be then, vital to Universal as they finalize in securing land potentially in the United Kingdom.

 

[UniloveEU]

I'm not just talking about PAW being on this "Tour" (and this is more pure speculation on my part--something you guys seem to be doing quite well).

Outside of their limited experience operating that of Universal Mediterranea in a different administration and era of the company; and outside of EU companies like Sky--they have no base understanding of what will be needed for the sake of drawing people to that of a tourist destination in the continent.

They have examples of international markets; but the differences between that of Asia to EU are vast in scale and scope. And since Mediterranea, parks like Phantasialand, Europa Park, Energylandia, and the respective Movie Parks (like Movie Park Germany or even WB Madrid now that Parque Reiundos has decided to invest) have all come into place countering and offering differing experiences that attract guests regardless of where.

Getting an understanding of your opponents, a respect for them; can be key and vital to the process in allowing them to flesh out what a "Universal Europe" now looks like in the modern day practices. And what would be then, vital to Universal as they finalize in securing land potentially in the United Kingdom.

I'm sorry, I‘m not sure who you mean with „you guys“. Europeans in general? People who like PortAventura? Sorry, I just joined the discussion board so I don’t know who you actually mean. I don’t like to speculate either, I like facts - but I also like logical, economic and strategic thinking. Just to set the record straight

I totally mean what you mean by tour. And I understand that. The evidence at the moment really point out to a stronger PA focus since the beginning of the year. Specific patents made for the Spanish market by Universal point even stronger in that direction. That's why I can't understand / believe a bigger London investment instead of Spain - especially with the Brexit troubles and aftermath still going on.

Stupid idea but: What if there's two investments in Europe? With two different concepts? Just food for thought. This is the only way I can explain everything right now that’s going on since January 2023.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

I totally mean what you mean by tour. And I understand that. The evidence at the moment really point out to a stronger PA focus since the beginning of the year. Specific patents made for the Spanish market by Universal point even stronger in that direction. That's why I can't understand / believe a bigger London investment instead of Spain - especially with the Brexit troubles and aftermath still going on.

Stupid idea but: What if there's two investments in Europe? With two different concepts? Just food for thoughts. This is the only way I can explain everything that’s going on since January 2023.

If I was looking at it logistically; and through the perspective as seen with that of what they are admittedly doing with Horror Unleashed and Universal Kids Park--it's testing and gauging what exactly you are capable of. However with testing and gauging, I would suspect Universal would want to ensure that they know they have an audience that wants their products for them; and not just from that of another.

It's why I genuinely do not think Universal is going after PAW. They will have concerns with licensing, especially as they enter the European market with seemingly the UK (Which now has multiple people claiming and not just one); that I think Universal is going to opt to focus on UK to ensure they see how far the brand is willing to be pushed in the continent.

But in order to do that, touring right now; as they finalize on the land purchases and potentially figure out what kind of attractions and IP's they want to define UK with (Even if it's going by the London name); feels sensical and on point to me.

 

[UniloveEU]

If I was looking at it logistically; and through the perspective as seen with that of what they are admittedly doing with Horror Unleashed and Universal Kids Park--it's testing and gauging what exactly you are capable of. However with testing and gauging, I would suspect Universal would want to ensure that they know they have an audience that wants their products for them; and not just from that of another.

It's why I genuinely do not think Universal is going after PAW. They will have concerns with licensing, especially as they enter the European market with seemingly the UK (Which now has multiple people claiming and not just one); that I think Universal is going to opt to focus on UK to ensure they see how far the brand is willing to be pushed in the continent.

But in order to do that, touring right now; as they finalize on the land purchases and potentially figure out what kind of attractions and IP's they want to define UK with (Even if it's going by the London name); feels sensical and on point to me.

But this is not considering a guest-centric approach which is kind of crucial (and should be crucial for successful companies anyways). What about the recent situation in UK due to Brexit and what does that mean for one of the biggest potential target groups? The obstacles for non-UK tourists needing additional entry documents (in some countries, almost 50% percent of the population doesn’t own a travel passport (needed for UK), visa (and to pay fees) to enter the country (which is not common at all in Europe) and the almost halved guest potential due to missing passports? What about the different patents for the Spanish market from Universal City published just days ago? Local law firms neither Universal don’t do this for fun and for free (it's budget-related).

 

[Michael S]

But this is not considering a guest-centric approach which is kind of crucial (and should be crucial for successful companies anyways). What about the recent situation in UK due to Brexit and what does that mean for one of the biggest target groups? The obstacles for non-UK tourists needing additional entry documents (and to pay fees) to enter the country? What about the different patents for the Spanish market from Universal City published just days ago? Local law firms neither Universal don’t do this for fun and for free (budget-related).

I mean, not to like put down a potential PA Universal buyout, but first I wanna address the “you guys” thing. It’s obvious to me @AlexanderMBush was referring to all posters on this thread that have more inside information in the European theme park market than any of us do in the states. I can say with absolute certainty that is was not meant in any malicious or derogatory fashion.

Second, if a sale is going to occur, no matter what buyer, new licensing contracts would have to be drafted, as the original licensing agreement is for the company who owns the park, not the park itself.

I feel like my Walt Disney visiting parks before working on Disneyland comparison was glossed over or misinterpreted.

Like I said, they do have a relationship with PA which would make it easier for anybody in the parks department to see how a European theme park (again not trying to generalize) is run. The current iteration of Comcast/Uni has never tasted that market before.

And if they were planning to build a park in the UK, I doubt the established UK Parks (Alton Towers, Paulton’s or Flamingo Land amongst others) would let Universal execs in for backstage tours or operations training if they will be in direct completion with them if that ever comes to be.

Just wanna reiterate, I’m not saying I’m right, and I’m not saying that a buyout wouldn’t happen. I was just simply theorizing what an alternative meaning to what is transpiring may be.

Edit:

Also, I understand the mess Brexit caused in terms of ease of travel. But the UK is still a tourism hotspot and they have a plethora of parks that are still sustaining in light of the political developments over the last decade, or so. I don’t see why Universal would see that as a barrier preventing them from entering the UK market.

Also, not trying to bring UK in this too much since this is a PA thread, it is possible UNI is working on getting patents in areas that could be direct competition to a park anywhere in Europe, not just UK.

I’m not trying to downplay anything, but I always stand by the philosophy that we should look at every scenario from all angles and all possibilities.

 

[Legacy]

I thought Apple was going to buy Port Adventura.

 

[UniloveEU]

I mean, not to like put down a potential PA Universal buyout, but first I wanna address the “you guys” thing. It’s obvious to me @AlexanderMBush was referring to all posters on this thread that have more inside information in the European theme park market than any of us do in the states. I can say with absolute certainty that is was not meant in any malicious or derogatory fashion.

Second, if a sale is going to occur, no matter what buyer, new licensing contracts would have to be drafted, as the original licensing agreement is for the company who owns the park, not the park itself.

I feel like my Walt Disney visiting parks before working on Disneyland comparison was glossed over or misinterpreted.

Like I said, they do have a relationship with PA which would make it easier for anybody in the parks department to see how a European theme park (again not trying to generalize) is run. The current iteration of Comcast/Uni has never tasted that market before.

And if they were planning to build a park in the UK, I doubt the established UK Parks (Alton Towers, Paulton’s or Flamingo Land amongst others) would let Universal execs in for backstage tours or operations training if they will be in direct completion with them if that ever comes to be.

Just wanna reiterate, I’m not saying I’m right, and I’m not saying that a buyout wouldn’t happen. I was just simply theorizing what an alternative meaning to what is transpiring may be.

And that’s totally fine. Really, I get your points and they make sense. But for me, there are a lot of facts and questions regarding the potential of a Universal Park in Europe that nobody had addressed or answered yet. Why choosing UK in times of Brexit for an investment when a big chunk of their target group is struggling and even opting out of Disneyland Paris due to financial crisis? Why choosing a non-EU country with a high currency exchange rate? Why taking the risk of halving the potential target groups from EU due to missing passports and additional obstacles (British ESTA, fees etc.)? And why filing several patents by Universal specifically for the Spanish market which were just released some days ago when they want to build themselves up in UK?

 

[Mad Dog]

Two possible scenarios (No inside info from me)...just throwing it out there..Universal PA interest is an intentional red herring....and/or playing countries/investors off of each other to get the most government investment money and/or terms.

 

[UniloveEU]

One possibility...just throwing it out there...PA interest is a red herring.

Interesting thought. But it doesn’t solve the challenges you might have with a European theme park destination in UK (as stated above). And just think about the disastrous UK theme park projects in the past and their vanishing right before our eyes (Paramount).

 

[Mad Dog]

Interesting thought. But it doesn’t solve the challenges you might have with a European theme park destination in UK (as stated above). And just think about the disastrous UK theme park projects in the past and their vanishing right before our eyes (Paramount).

I agree. I don't personally see the value of Universal building a new park in the UK, especially since a large segment of their International Universal Florida guests, who stay on site and spend tons of money, come from the UK. But Comcast, rather than the Universal division, may have some other objectives and they're using the theme park to achieve those objectives. Whatever is happening behind the scenes may well be the real driver of this maybe park/resort.

 

[UniloveEU]

I agree. I don't personally see the value of Universal building a new park in the UK, especially since a large segment of their International Universal Florida guests, who stay on site and spend tons of money, come from the UK. But Comcast, rather than the Universal division, may have some other objectives and they're using the theme park to achieve those objectives. Whatever is happening behind the scenes may well be the real driver of this maybe park/resort.

„we are expanding the brand by introducing new concepts, bringing it to new platforms – both physical and virtual – and entering new markets.“ - so these are the overall business objectives (not specific ones) from an interview with Mark Woodbury. But I don’t get how you enter a new (European) market through a non-EU country. Even business-related / financially, I don’t think you do yourself a favor.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

„we are expanding the brand by introducing new concepts, bringing it to new platforms – both physical and virtual – and entering new markets.“ - so these are the overall business objectives from an interview with Mark Woodbury. But I don’t get how you enter a new (European) market through a non-EU country. Even business-related / financially, I don’t think you do yourself a favor.

I am genuinely going to ask this, but the United Kingdom is still part of the continent of Europe; right? It's no longer associated with being part of the EU, but that really shouldn't qualify it to be politically trying to deny that of another country's potential viability.

Please explain this--because I genuinely do not get it. Perhaps I am just an idiot (which wouldn't be new for me). And for once, I am willing to push this button and I understand if I break a few rules as I say this; but the way I see it is of one simple aspect:

You, DC, and UER use political discrimination off of the fact that the UK is not part of the EU, that because of Brexit; it somehow disqualifies them due to the status of the current position of their country, to cause doubt to even faintly consider the positive results that could come from a Resort destination in the UK on the scale of Universal. It makes you all angry, and in doing so wanting to shift the blame to then push this narrative of Universal wanting, needing PortAventura to do what they can do with just a plot of land.

So please, tell me why I am an idiot because I've had it.

 

[Jake S]

You, DC, and UER use political discrimination off of the fact that the UK is not part of the EU, that because of Brexit; it somehow disqualifies them due to the status of the current position of their country, to cause doubt to even faintly consider the positive results that could come from a Resort destination in the UK on the scale of Universal.

The United Kingdom leaving the European Union does make it more challenging for a Spaniard to visit London than to visit Germany, France or Portugal. That's a big consideration and something that will continue to haunt the United Kingdom's tourism industry for a very, very long time. I don't think it necessarily rules out Universal building a large park in the country, but I do think it makes the country much less attractive than it would have been 10 years ago.

That's in addition to a cost of living crisis and years upon years of austerity politics making Brits increasingly less well off. Other countries in Europe obviously have problems and issues of their own, but I don't think the European members of this forum are discriminating against the United Kingdom because of the E.U. consideration.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

The United Kingdom leaving the European Union does make it more challenging for a Spaniard to visit London than to visit Germany, France or Portugal. That's a big consideration and something that will continue to haunt the United Kingdom's tourism industry for a very, very long time. I don't think it necessarily rules out Universal building a large park in the country, but I do think it makes the country much less attractive than it would have been 10 years ago.

That's in addition to a cost of living crisis and years upon years of austerity politics making Brits increasingly less well off. Other countries in Europe obviously have problems and issues of their own, but I don't think the European members of this forum are discriminating against the United Kingdom because of the E.U. consideration.

And I will stress--I apologize for lashing out as I have but a part of me is kind of really trying to wrap ahead of the constant negativity when there can be positivity to potentialities. As contradictory as I might be, I do genuinely think PAW is going to find a really good buyer (SeaWorld is unironically the one that I think might be the best off here); and I think there is a wealth of potential to come with PAW if they can tackle things that don't just need that of a buyer to step in.