Wizarding World - Diagon Alley Discussion (Opens 2014)

[jtsalien]

Listen, I know how everybody loves Lost Continent for how original it is, but please don't fool yourself and believe it's anywhere other than the least popular land in the park.

That's an invalid point. There is always going to be a least popular land in the park. And for families without younger children, Seuss might be a pretty close second. Just because a land isn't the most popular one in the park, doesn't mean it should be bulldozed. They can improve LC without Potter.

 

[Frogki]

I think between Diagon and Hogsmeade there should be an attraction where the queue is the train station where you walk through the brick wall (possibly a projection on a smoke-screen or an optical illusion). The ride itself could be similar to Catastrophe Canyon and Disaster where you board the Hogwarts Express and survive a Dementor onslaught. The ride dump could be by the Hogsmeade entrance/Hogwarts Express station thus connecting Diagon Alley to Hogsmeade.

I had the same idea but the whole dementor onslaught is too similar to FJ's ending.
However, we could simple have a ride where one could walk through, open a cabin, and sit down for a while. A few cartridges could have witches/wizards of different house performing magic on the way to school through special effects (I've always found walkthrough experiences like these to be cool), and the trolley lady could come by or be waiting at the end. You could unboard at Hogsmeade station and there would be a small stand to buy things like luggage tags, etc...

--- Update ---

That's an invalid point. There is always going to be a least popular land in the park. And for families without younger children, Seuss might be a pretty close second. Just because a land isn't the most popular one in the park, doesn't mean it should be bulldozed. They can improve LC without Potter.

Yes but why improve a place that, however original and creative, simply doesn't have the drawing power anymore, when you've got a brand new franchise that could bring back that crowd they just had and give them more money in their pockets again... It will be later on down the road of course, but it's probable to happen.

 

[Scarletwebslingr]

I had the same idea but the whole dementor onslaught is too similar to FJ's ending.
However, we could simple have a ride where one could walk through, open a cabin, and sit down for a while. A few cartridges could have witches/wizards of different house performing magic on the way to school through special effects (I've always found walkthrough experiences like these to be cool), and the trolley lady could come by or be waiting at the end. You could unboard at Hogsmeade station and there would be a small stand to buy things like luggage tags, etc...

Replace Dementors with Deatheaters? The Knightbus could make for a fun, transitioning ride as well.

 

[jtsalien]

Yes but why improve a place that, however original and creative, simply doesn't have the drawing power anymore, when you've got a brand new franchise that could bring back that crowd they just had and give them more money in their pockets again... It will be later on down the road of course, but it's probable to happen.

But Potter won't be brand new anymore. It will be going back to the well. So why does it have to be Potter? Mythology has a lot more to work with. They could just as easily stick with LC.

 

[JungleSkip]

It may be going back to the well, but it's still going to be more popular than anything else they do. You don't have to like it, but it's he truth.

As for saying it's invalid that it's the least popular (as well as profitable) land in the park... No way. You're gonna replace something that isnt popular way before something that is.

 

[Frogki]

But Potter won't be brand new anymore. It will be going back to the well. So why does it have to be Potter? Mythology has a lot more to work with. They could just as easily stick with LC.

We've seen what Potter can do. Why not Potter, they've got to live with it anyway, are you saying it won't be a success for years to come?
Trust me, Potter's going to be relevant for years to come, generations I'd say. It's the Star Wars of our generation. It's already brought millions of people in. People also said Potter itself would die down back when it first came out, that it was a fad, and that it would slowly die down as the books were released. We've seen just the opposite. It's far from going back into the well. J.K. Rowling just made a digital reading experience for the digital generation. It's going to survive for years. LC is dieing, and Universal doesn't have to be lazy. They've learned that if they put the money in, they get it back.

 

[mantaguy]

Yes but why improve a place that, however original and creative, simply doesn't have the drawing power anymore, when you've got a brand new franchise that could bring back that crowd they just had and give them more money in their pockets again... It will be later on down the road of course, but it's probable to happen.

Because you would compromise the greatness of what they have now with HP. Right now we have a near-complete representation of the most important area in the series: Hogwarts and its surroundings. The last 195 pages of Deathly Hallows takes place there! I feel that, for fans, the main demographic for WWoHP, lumping everything in the Wizarding world together would just feel fake and cheap. WWoHP gained such big press and attendence because it got out how well they made you feel like you were in another world. No matter how they do it, there's no way they can recreate what they have already done, and it would not be nearly as successful. If they wanted to make a Harry Potter expo, or a Harry Potter film set, then they would have done that. But they made a Harry Potter world, and in a Harry Potter world, Hogsmeade is just not next to Diagon Alley. YES, they could do it, it would attract an initial following, but the fans would be disappointed. Now the only thing I see for a fan-pleasing expansion is a lengthening of Hogsmeade or an addition of other landmarks with the Hogwarts/Hogsmeade area. Something like that would retain the contingency they, I mean Universal Creative, have worked so hard to make here.

 

[JungleSkip]

I think the only fans that would be dissappointed are the unrealistic, unhinged ones. Any sane fan would be thrilled with an expansion

 

[jtsalien]

We've seen what Potter can do. Why not Potter, they've got to live with it anyway, are you saying it won't be a success for years to come?
Trust me, Potter's going to be relevant for years to come, generations I'd say. It's the Star Wars of our generation. It's already brought millions of people in. People also said Potter itself would die down back when it first came out, that it was a fad, and that it would slowly die down as the books were released. We've seen just the opposite. It's far from going back into the well. J.K. Rowling just made a digital reading experience for the digital generation. It's going to survive for years. LC is dieing, and Universal doesn't have to be lazy. They've learned that if they put the money in, they get it back.

I don't want them to be lazy. And I'm not arguing Potter won't stay popular. I know it will. But it already got it's fair treatment. You can update the land, but move on. Push with a new experience and new franchise. Don't rely on Potter to be a lifeline, just in case it does somehow falter in the future. I know this is a pointless argument, because right now it probably will happen. But I still don't think it should.

 

[mantaguy]

It may be going back to the well, but it's still going to be more popular than anything else they do. You don't have to like it, but it's he truth.

As for saying it's invalid that it's the least popular (as well as profitable) land in the park... No way. You're gonna replace something that isnt popular way before something that is.

Ok, let's say Universal follows this logic. After LC goes, what's next? Seuss? Or Toon Lagoon? Will they replace those entire islands? Of course not. Are they going to retheme all of Hollywood or Amity just because they're small and have few attractions? No! I'm sorry but this reasoning just makes no sense.

 

[jtsalien]

Ok, let's say Universal follows this logic. After LC goes, what's next? Seuss? Or Toon Lagoon? Will they replace those entire islands? Of course not. Are they going to retheme all of Hollywood or Amity just because they're small and have few attractions? No! I'm sorry but this reasoning just makes no sense.

But since Marvel and Potter make the most money, shouldn't they just make the park the Super Wizarding Island World of Marvel Potter?

 

[Frogki]

Because you would compromise the greatness of what they have now with HP. Right now we have a near-complete representation of the most important area in the series: Hogwarts and its surroundings. The last 195 pages of Deathly Hallows takes place there! I feel that, for fans, the main demographic for WWoHP, lumping everything in the Wizarding world together would just feel fake and cheap. WWoHP gained such big press and attendence because it got out how well they made you feel like you were in another world. No matter how they do it, there's no way they can recreate what they have already done, and it would not be nearly as successful. If they wanted to make a Harry Potter expo, or a Harry Potter film set, then they would have done that. But they made a Harry Potter world, and in a Harry Potter world, Hogsmeade is just not next to Diagon Alley. YES, they could do it, it would attract an initial following, but the fans would be disappointed. Now the only thing I see for a fan-pleasing expansion is a lengthening of Hogsmeade or an addition of other landmarks with the Hogwarts/Hogsmeade area. Something like that would retain the contingency they, I mean Universal Creative, have worked so hard to make here.

I think the only fans that would be dissappointed are the unrealistic, unhinged ones. Any sane fan would be thrilled with an expansion

I agree with Jungleskip. It's a theme park, not the real HP world under a little dome, and the sane HP fans know that. In fact, on the HP fan I'm on, Diagon Alley is very popular in expansion talks. If you're really going to take it that far, then you're being a little hysterical. J.K. Rowling KNOWS that it's a theme park. What made HP popular wasn't it's "realisticness". There is no daily performance of the Frog Choir in the HP world, nor are muggles under any circumstances allowed in the world. It was the detail that made it real. Things like the Gryffindor poster board, and the conductor of the train. Diagon Alley wouldn't ruin that, it would simply expand the experience. You need to realize that we're talking about a theme park, not our own perfect little HP world. And if you say it IS perfect, than tell me, why is Dumbledore's office right next to the Defense Against the Dark Arts room? For that matter, why didn't we have to go through the phoenix escalator to get to Dumbledore's office?

I don't want them to be lazy. And I'm not arguing Potter won't stay popular. I know it will. But it already got it's fair treatment. You can update the land, but move on. Push with a new experience and new franchise. Don't rely on Potter to be a lifeline, just in case it does somehow falter in the future. I know this is a pointless argument, because right now it probably will happen. But I still don't think it should.

But it's not relying on it for a lifeline. It's taking their most popular franchise right now, milking it for all it's worth, and then working on the park as a whole.

Ok, let's say Universal follows this logic. After LC goes, what's next? Seuss? Or Toon Lagoon? Will they replace those entire islands? Of course not. Are they going to retheme all of Hollywood or Amity just because they're small and have few attractions? No! I'm sorry but this reasoning just makes no sense.

No, your reasoning makes no sense. The other lands are still very popular. HP just happens to be extremely popular right now and will be for quite some time. So don't you think they want to capitalize on that quickly, and while the iron is hot? Once crowds start dieing down a bit, you mark my words, and expansion will come, one that will actually make some money, not something to please the crazy obsessive fan who notices that the magic wands are just plastic. It's not about just expanding the most popular islands everytime. It's about taking the thing that has put you back on the map and boosted your attendance sales by 36 percent, and capitalizing on it while it's still worth something.

 

[jtsalien]

No, your reasoning makes no sense. The other lands are still very popular. HP just happens to be extremely popular right now and will be for quite some time. So don't you think they want to capitalize on that quickly, and while the iron is hot? Once crowds start dieing down a bit, you mark my words, and expansion will come, one that will actually make some money, not something to please the crazy obsessive fan who notices that the magic wands are just plastic. It's not about just expanding the most popular islands everytime. It's about taking the thing that has put you back on the map and boosted your attendance sales by 36 percent, and capitalizing on it while it's still worth something.

Potter worked so well because it made an impact and it was something never seen before. To expect the same results is being unrealistic. Universal needs to continue to be different, not just offer more of the same. They have money to work with, and it's time to take a step forward, not one to the side.

 

[Frogki]

Potter worked so well because it made an impact and it was something never seen before. To expect the same results is being unrealistic. Universal needs to continue to be different, not just offer more of the same. They have money to work with, and it's time to take a step forward, not one to the side.

I'm not saying they would expect the same results. But HP is extremely popular. It will remain popular for, as I said, generations to come. To expand it would make the most sense for them moneywise. No, it will not make the giant impact it made before. But it will get them profits once again, and that's where you capitalize. That's when you start working on the rest of the park, once you've fixed the deadspot, you work on painting the rest of the house.

 

[jtsalien]

I'm not saying they would expect the same results. But HP is extremely popular. It will remain popular for, as I said, generations to come. To expand it would make the most sense for them moneywise. No, it will not make the giant impact it made before. But it will get them profits once again, and that's where you capitalize. That's when you start working on the rest of the park, once you've fixed the deadspot, you work on painting the rest of the house.

As I'm sure Jubilation Lee would glady point out if he was here, relevancy has nothing to do with a theme park ride or experience being popular or successful. I don't think it makes the most sense. They would be over-saturating the Potter product. Why not go for another new franchise with unlimited potential for growth? Potter isn't the only dependable franchise in the world. They already got their profits. They can capitalize now.

 

[JungleSkip]

As I'm sure Jubilation Lee would glady point out if he was here, relevancy has nothing to do with a theme park ride or experience being popular or successful. I don't think it makes the most sense. They would be over-saturating the Potter product. Why not go for another new franchise with unlimited potential for growth? Potter isn't the only dependable franchise in the world. They already got their profits. They can capitalize now.

You're right. Attractions being popular doesn't matter what they're based on.

Except for certain situations. There are certain brands and properties that will ALWAYS be more popular and interesting to the common folk than others.

Potter is one of them. Universal would be moronic not to expand on what is by far either thefirst or second most popular brand on the planet.

 

[Jymmymack]

Everyone still seems to be under the impression that LC hasn't been crippled beyond repair. It's a dying limb hacked away from what once was a whole body. PF isn't even in its best incarnation, Sinbad is a 10 year old stunt show, and the shopping, while original, doesn't draw huge crowds. I loved LC, but without Merlinwood, it just doesn't feel the same. I'd rather have a land dedicated to an entire property than the lesser half of a once incredible land.


But damn would I be heartbroken to see that PF facade get torn down.

 

[Frogki]

As I'm sure Jubilation Lee would glady point out if he was here, relevancy has nothing to do with a theme park ride or experience being popular or successful. I don't think it makes the most sense. They would be over-saturating the Potter product. Why not go for another new franchise with unlimited potential for growth? Potter isn't the only dependable franchise in the world. They already got their profits. They can capitalize now.

Okay, I'll admit, you've got a point. But why go for another franchise when you've already got extremely popular Potter, at the peak of it's success with the final film coming out next month, and the money to make it another wow factor and have the guests do a double, and go back.
I'm not saying that Potter is going to be the next expansion absolutely. But it sure looks that way, and it seems likely... Very easy, very good, very successful, and very innovative.
We're obviously not going to come to an agreement, so let's just agree to disagree and speculate on what could go in an expansion hypathetically while we wait for Teebin to come back or Universal to tell us they're next project.

 

[jtsalien]

Everyone still seems to be under the impression that LC hasn't been crippled beyond repair. It's a dying limb hacked away from what once was a whole body. PF isn't even in its best incarnation, Sinbad is a 10 year old stunt show, and the shopping, while original, doesn't draw huge crowds. I loved LC, but without Merlinwood, it just doesn't feel the:doh: same. I'd rather have a land dedicated to an entire property than the lesser half of a once incredible land.


But damn would I be heartbroken to see that PF facade get torn down.

Put in a great new darkride in place of Sinbad, refurb PF, do some general TLC, and I think it could be fixed. Or it could be replaced. I would just rather see a new property rather than Potter engulf it.

 

[mantaguy]

You say it would be very easy, but it wouldn't. A full Potter take over of LC would cost many times that of the first incarnation, excluding FJ. They tore down virtually nothing: Only the Enchanted Oak facade. The kitchens stayed, the bathrooms stayed, the DC and FotH queues stayed. All they built new was FJ and the Hogsmeade facades. Now for a take over of the rest of LC, that would require tearing down the entire PF facade and the Mythos facade, probably leaving the kitchen and bathrooms, and most likely tearing down Sindbad and all the little shops and buildings in the Bazaar. Plus the Mystic Fountain with all its plumbing. Then building whatever they might plan on building. Whatever a Potter expansion might be, it would not be cheap or easy.