Fantasyland Expansion - Part 2

[Nitro_230]

There is obviously going to have to be some kind of media event where they share with the press where it's going and what's inside. All I've been saying for the last two pages is that as the video points out, there has been an official announcement of phase two. It's not rumor, it's official. And it was in response to someone somehow saying that we couldn't compare this to FLE because this was announced, which is why I pointed out it is. Speaking of FLE, can we please go :focus:

 

[IzzyB]

Yes all, this is FLE thread, not Phase 2 announcement thread

As for FLE, I am not one to bash Disney a lot. Most of you know I have been on the other side of the argument many times, including NextGen (which I still think is a smart move by Disney). But when it comes to FLE, I love the CONTENT of FLE. I love the circus, mermaid, Belle M&G and how different it is, I love the Dumbo additions, etc. I think the expansion served its purpose and hit the target market. I don't think it needs to be a thrilling e-ticket to be a success. I think it was a perfect mix of toddler to family rides. Just no tween rides, which is fine, I think those should be reserved for tomorrowland, fronterland, etc. Also, I think studios is their thrilling park and I hope that AK becomes more of that over the years too. But let Fantasyland be what it is, young kids, families, and people re-experiencing their youth.

Now where I do have an issue with Disney is their timeline. No way should they be this slow. From ground break to completion it should be no longer than Phase 2 at Uni (which I think is a fair comparison). No way should they open it and advertise it, with a HUGE part sectioned off and construction going on. This was a huge mistake by Disney and has made them look like idiots. If they want a tax break, how about building stuff in other parks instead of dragging out FLE for 5 years. Pointing this out, does not mean we are bashing Disney. We are stating the truth and for those of us that LOVE Disney the reason we hate it is because it is going to bite them in the butt. Universal is NOT backing down and while that is awesome for us, no one wants to see Disney go into the dark ages like Uni did once. We want to see both parks be successful (well actually for me all three because I include Sea World) and to do that, Disney has got to stop sitting on their hands and try to compete.

Do I think it is going to crumble in the next couple years, nope. Disney is a business and they have made some smart business decisions. But is it going to cut into sales, yes. The more it does this, the more they cut back, the more we get into this cycle. It may take 30 years, but Disney could very well be moving down a path that is not going to be very good for them and at some point will be very difficult to reverse. This is why many of us speak up and debate these things. We are theme park lovers and we hope that are worst case scenarios do not come true. But we still talk about them. Maybe in hopes that someone is out there reading some of this stuff. And maybe, just maybe will see the light.

 

[Hockeyman55]

But you think the success with Potter played a part in Disney's timeline with FLE? Did they have their original plan and then revised those plans once they saw how well Potter was doing? I thought I read somewhere Saggs ( I think) wanted to add more boy stuff with his kids having an influence on that decision and thus 7DMT was added later into the mix. Granted they are building it super slow but could they have worked faster to get it open with the rest of the land? Im not too familiar with the whole timeline of events so that's why I wonder if they initially had plans with FLE 1.0 to open all together and then changed to 2.0 and said the heck with opening it all at once.

 

[Disneyhead]

The original FLE plan was announced Sept. 2009 with a completion date as 2013. When they revised the plan it added a year to the timeline.

 

[Hockeyman55]

So had plans not changed things theoretically could have opened all at the same time but then we would have not had 7DMT

 

[Disneyhead]

Right.

 

[Nitro_230]

So had plans not changed things theoretically could have opened all at the same time but then we would have not had 7DMT

Yes, but plans didn't change late in the game. They could have caught this stuff up easily.

 

[IzzyB]

Yes, but plans didn't change late in the game. They could have caught this stuff up easily.

Agreed. Look at how many times things change at Uni without effecting timelines to the extent that this was effected. I think they could have done it, even with the changed plans, if they wanted to.

 

[KRAKENvsMANTA]

7DMT wasn't a minor late addition though. It was a major addition. The centerpiece attraction of a major expansion using a brand new ride system, added at the last minute. The decision maybe wasn't the wisest, but when completed it will be the most popular ride in Fantasyland.

 

[Disneyhead]

The longevity of the project has nothing to do with late additions. It has to do with spreading capital expenditures over as many fiscal years as possible. They build both DCA and DAK on 3 year build outs. There is no reason the FLE is taking 5 years except that Disney wanted it to take 5 years. It's that simple.

People should understand that TDO didn't want to build it at all. But they were forced to by Burbank. Just like TDO didn't want to upgrade Star Tours but were forced to by Burbank. That is why TDO refuse to properly market it.

 

[Thor]

Didn't Lee, at one point, state that the 7DMC was actually part of the original plans, then shelved for the announced meet and greets, and then, after the backlash, 7DMC was brought back to life?

 

[Disneyhead]

Didn't Lee, at one point, state that the 7DMC was actually part of the original plans, then shelved for the announced meet and greets, and then, after the backlash, 7DMC was brought back to life?

Yes.

 

[Nitro_230]

7DMT wasn't a minor late addition though. It was a major addition. The centerpiece attraction of a major expansion using a brand new ride system, added at the last minute. The decision maybe wasn't the wisest, but when completed it will be the most popular ride in Fantasyland.

But it wasn't that late of an edition. And when it was going to be pixie hallow it was still going to have to be built, so the supplies change, but the money to get it built doesn't. And having the guys on site to build it at the same time as everything else doesn't.

 

[Thor]

Yes.

To me, the current time frame is all the more worse because of this.

 

[alomar]

The longevity of the project has nothing to do with late additions. It has to do with spreading capital expenditures over as many fiscal years as possible. They build both DCA and DAK on 3 year build outs. There is no reason the FLE is taking 5 years except that Disney wanted it to take 5 years. It's that simple.

I want to quote this, and make it my reply everytime the length of the project is brought up. :horse:

 

[captainjack]

I've been to MK and have experienced this New Fantasyland you write about I didn't love it and I didn't hate it. I thought it was okay. It was built for children and parents with small children...not 30 something single guys. In that aspect the area achieves it's purpose. If I had my niece to take with me and go there I'm sure I would have liked it more. She is one though and a bit too young for a day at the Magic Kingdom. Did TLM impress me? No not at all. But again it is a ride built for children, parents with children and wasn't for me. I did go on it once so I get sme cred right? ound: haha. I'm really hoping the other lands get spruced up like this area has. That's one thing and one advantage that Disneyland has..it has little details everywhere. I'm hoping MK catches up. :thumbs:

 

[disneylove]

I think they moved the opening to Spring 2014 to be safe. I would assume we will see testing around late December - Early Jan., and then an early opening.

 

[Dr. Emmett Brown]

This attraction is becoming more and more of a disappointment and is continuing to show Disney's incompetence when it comes to building and marketing new experiences.

 

[Disneyhead]

This attraction is becoming more and more of a disappointment and is continuing to show Disney's incompetence when it comes to building and marketing new experiences.

TDO is in a funky mindset about adding new attractions that was caused by 2 $100+million attractions (Mission Space and Everest) back to back that failed to deliver the expected results. TDO's conclusion is that nothing they build will actually increase attendance. They feel they have reached a saturation point. I feel they are wrong.

Mission Space got a bad rep right out of the gate being dubbed "Project Vomit" and that it literally is a "killer" attraction. And Everest, while bumping DAK's numbers, didn't bring more people to the resort, but it did extend a lot of guests stays by a day. But it suffers from being in a park that for some reason has not resonated with the general public. So that set up TDO's mindset that additions are far too expensive for the gains they bring. So TDO is resistant to build.

TDO was FORCED to upgrade Star Tours. They didn't want to spend the money, but Burbank FORCED them too. So as a petty knee jerk reaction, TDO intentionally refused to market it properly and the result was an unimpressive turn out. Now TDO is saying to Burbank, "See, told you so". Then comes the FLE, with a 5 year build out, no signature E-Ticket, and a ridiculous phased opening and low and behold, the guests are "meh". This once again feeds TDO's thinking that additions are pointless. Burbank reached a breaking point with TDO and that is why Meg and her top 16 flying monkeys are no longer at TDO. A good house cleaning in the halls of TDO hopefully will reverse the resorts trajectory.

 

[Dr. Emmett Brown]

TDO is in a funky mindset about adding new attractions that was caused by 2 $100+million attractions (Mission Space and Everest) back to back that failed to deliver the expected results. TDO's conclusion is that nothing they build will actually increase attendance. They feel they have reached a saturation point. I feel they are wrong.

Mission Space got a bad rep right out of the gate being dubbed "Project Vomit" and that it literally is a "killer" attraction. And Everest, while bumping DAK's numbers, didn't bring more people to the resort, but it did extend a lot of guests stays by a day. But it suffers from being in a park that for some reason has not resonated with the general public. So that set up TDO's mindset that additions are far too expensive for the gains they bring. So TDO is resistant to build.

TDO was FORCED to upgrade Star Tours. They didn't want to spend the money, but Burbank FORCED them too. So as a petty knee jerk reaction, TDO intentionally refused to market it properly and the result was an unimpressive turn out. Now TDO is saying to Burbank, "See, told you so". Then comes the FLE, with a 5 year build out, no signature E-Ticket, and a ridiculous phased opening and low and behold, the guests are "meh". This once again feeds TDO's thinking that additions are pointless. Burbank reached a breaking point with TDO and that is why Meg and her top 16 flying monkeys are no longer at TDO. A good house cleaning in the halls of TDO hopefully will reverse the resorts trajectory.

TDO was also practically forced to upgrade Test Track last year. The problem with TDO isn't just necessarily their resistance to adding big attractions, but the way they're allocating funds today. Countdown to Fun was removed earlier this year and rumors are surfacing about Jammin' Jungle being removed by October. The reasoning behind that being to allocate funds to more streetmosphere in MK, and work towards a new fireworks show for MK's 45th anniversary.

The guests are "meh" when it comes to New Fantasyland overwhelmingly because of the awfully planned phase opening. Guests get all worked up from the advertising and the first thing they see is construction. The effects of TDO cleaning house is yet to be seen, but hopefully that trend switches quickly. It's certain that the resort can maintain current levels of revenue based on nostalgia alone, but the opportunity for increased profit is there.