Halloween Horror Nights 33 (UOR) - Speculation & Rumors

[JunoSynth]

People are literally canceling plans all over express lol. Have these people never went before the multi-day passes with express existed? Spoiler alert. . . you're not going to die without it (express).

That was a long time ago before the lines and crowds got to the ridiculous numbers they are now.

Don't know about other people but in my case I prefer to go to the park when its already dark and so I can leave early.
I don't want to see houses when my eyes are still adjusting and I do Volcano Bay early in the morning most days I'm there so I don't want to stay there all night.

Express allows me to experience all the houses in a more relaxing and laid back way.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I get why people wanted a heads-up (and don't disagree that there should have been one), but I honestly don't think it would magically fix things either. There are always going to be people who walk away empty-handed. Look at every Ticketmaster sale ever. The event is given an on-sale time, the sites get overloaded (and often crash), only a few people get tickets, and most people walk away furious at the site & situation because they failed to secure tickets before they sold out.

Most complaints I've seen could be summarized as "the worst people you know throwing a tantrum over not getting preferential treatment and threatening never to spend their -insert high amount of money- at this business ever again with a dash of self-reporting about berating innocent customer support agents". These people would throw a fit no matter what if they failed to snag their tickets whether they had a heads up or not.

I've seen numerous tweets saying FFP holders deserve express more than single-day visitors. I've seen countless people saying Universal owes them because they've been consistent FFP holders for several years. And so on. I simply don't feel bad that some people can't shell out exuberant amounts of money to be better than every else for the entirety of the event. The model was unsustainable and something had to give. For 99% of guests, this is a massive win. Let the 1% whine. Nobody needs 50 days of express access to enjoy an event.

So I've been texting and talking to folks about this and there are Thoughts (TM). First, some folks do save up yearly but aren't necessarily rich and want to buy a pass with Express. It's a product that's become more and more expensive over time and has outpaced inflation, deffinatley a "this was underpriced" situation and it sucks for those folks. It does.

On the other hand, you kinda hit the nail on the head with this. Some folks have admittedly made HHN their "entire personality" and are now feeling betrayed, these are unserious folks who need to touch the grass. There is a chunk of narcissists who love fame more than theme park entertainment who are flipping out because of this. farfanoogin them. Go back to Disney and/or using autonomous Twitter accounts to harass women/cast members/team members. They're not worth refurbishment to the pavement they walk on.

Wow, I guess I got lucky last year. I went for five days during the second or third week and never ran into a situation in which the standby line was shorter than express. Also, how are we to plan for that if we can only see the full line in, what, one queue line? I can only go by what the boards tell me and take a chance. Is there a way to assess line length before burning express? I'm guessing no. I mean, other than making friends with a helicopter person.

While it did happen, if you look at the dates it was opening weekend which is always an operations adjustment.

 

[johnathanm]

I keep reading that shorter express lines means the other line will be shorter as well. Can somebody please explain this logic to me? Wouldn't each person that opted out of express this year stand in the other line, making the regular line longer than usual? Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but the more I read on here, the more I think people should let Universal handle the logistics, lol.

This is what I’m trying to work out. At best, I see this allowing them to more quickly get to a “standby-only” operation as coined by @HandsomePete. At that point, standby queues should move quicker as less merge points clog up with express. But there will also be more people to fill the standby line, theoretically offsetting that.

The people who were able to snag FFP w/ Express in the first few hours likely benefit from this (unless this is simply designed to shift the mix of express purchasers to single night visitors - higher spend on a per visit basis), with non-express purchasers effectively unaffected. Again, I do hope I’m wrong. But I don’t think its obvious yet that this is a “benefits to the 99%” kind of situation.

P.S. if the goal is fixing the weird Express ops where those lines exceeded standby as @Legacy suggested, then it seems like a good move. Over promising for an expensive add on really ruins a guest’s experience.

 

[RedRightDan]

So I've been texting and talking to folks about this and there are Thoughts (TM). First, some folks do save up yearly but aren't necessarily rich and want to buy a pass with Express. It's a product that's become more and more expensive over time and has outpaced inflation, deffinatley a "this was underpriced" situation and it sucks for those folks. It does.

On the other hand, you kinda hit the nail on the head with this. Some folks have admittedly made HHN their "entire personality" and are now feeling betrayed, these are unserious folks who need to touch the grass. There is a chunk of narcissists who love fame more than theme park entertainment who are flipping out because of this. farfanoogin them. Go back to Disney and/or using autonomous Twitter accounts to harass women/cast members/team members. They're not worth refurbishment to the pavement they walk on.


While it did happen, if you look at the dates it was opening weekend which is always an operations adjustment.

…and where a much greater percentage of guests have express. For opening weekend, I’d argue that we’ll above 60% of guests have single night express, some sort of pass with express.

 

[Legacy]

I suspect that, if multi-night passes with Express open back up, it will either be in week three OR after the ROF period.

If I was an exec, that’s how I’d play it.

 

[maxairmike]

So I've been texting and talking to folks about this and there are Thoughts (TM). First, some folks do save up yearly but aren't necessarily rich and want to buy a pass with Express. It's a product that's become more and more expensive over time and has outpaced inflation, deffinatley a "this was underpriced" situation and it sucks for those folks. It does.

I wonder if people realize just how extremely underpriced the Express options are, because while I always knew they were a good deal even though they were (for me) expensive, I didn't realize until this morning when I did the math just how extremely underpriced and "cheap" they really are. If you take $170/night as the "average" nightly price for Express, the Ultimate pass w/Express is a 90%+ discount on the cost of Express alone for those 48 nights ($400 non-Express option means you're paying $670 for Express for 48 nights instead of $8k+). Even if you're only using half of those nights, you're still likely at a 75%+ discount on just Express because you're likely coming more often on Saturdays when Express is over $200 per night, driving up the total Express cost compared to the average I used.

In my opinion (yes, I'm sure they've done all their own pricing valuations and whatnot to arrive at a different conclusion) I don't care how much F&B/merch those getting the w/Express options are spending, they're harming their operations and leaving revenue on the table with the current structure. We'll see how much actually limiting the w/Express options affects the operations side of things this year, but I still would favor a completely different structure to offer Express to those with the FFPs.

 

[Neo]

People are literally canceling plans all over express lol. Have these people never went before the multi-day passes with express existed? Spoiler alert. . . you're not going to die without it (express).

I'm not going to die if buy a $500 used moped instead of buying the new car I have.

I'm not going to die if I fly Spirit Airlines, but I only fly major carriers.

I'm not going to die if I drink Natty Light, but I prefer to drink good beers.

I'm not going to die without express, but I'm going to buy it.

And to answer your question, yes, there are a TON of people who have only been going since multinight and express options have been available. If you're someone who's been going a long time, you know the crowds are exponentially larger now.

 

[jarmor]

You missed the entire tone and purpose of the post. . .

 

[ColbyTurkey]

You missed the entire tone and purpose of the post. . .

Now you know how I feel, lol. Every time I post, somebody responds like they are answering a different question.

This is what I’m trying to work out. At best, I see this allowing them to more quickly get to a “standby-only” operation as coined by @HandsomePete. At that point, standby queues should move quicker as less merge points clog up with express. But there will also be more people to fill the standby line, theoretically offsetting that.

The people who were able to snag FFP w/ Express in the first few hours likely benefit from this (unless this is simply designed to shift the mix of express purchasers to single night visitors - higher spend on a per visit basis), with non-express purchasers effectively unaffected. Again, I do hope I’m wrong. But I don’t think its obvious yet that this is a “benefits to the 99%” kind of situation.

P.S. if the goal is fixing the weird Express ops where those lines exceeded standby as @Legacy suggested, then it seems like a good move. Over promising for an expensive add on really ruins a guest’s experience.

I have no idea what you're talking about. How is that a response to my question?

 

[Alsands]

I get the people that are disappointed. I just think sometimes we forget that Universal and HHN exist for 1 purpose , to generate money. From a financial standpoint this was brilliant.
This move opens up a lot more express passes per night and they get to target their biggest fans… the season pass holders.

It’s funny I heard people complain the first couple hours when they seen the price for FFP express go up roughly $120 from prior year. We now know they weren’t trying to get an extra $120 a season per person , they want an extra $150 every night you go.

With Epic opening next year and the popularity of the event , it just can’t be the multiple night per person event it use to be.

 

[HHNSK]

On the other hand, you kinda hit the nail on the head with this. Some folks have admittedly made HHN their "entire personality" and are now feeling betrayed, these are unserious folks who need to touch the grass. There is a chunk of narcissists who love fame more than theme park entertainment who are flipping out because of this. farfanoogin them. Go back to Disney and/or using autonomous Twitter accounts to harass women/cast members/team members. They're not worth refurbishment to the pavement they walk on.

Come on. Thats an absurd generalization.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

Anybody thinking this was a move to thin out Express Lines is kidding themselves IMO. Less multi-night Express passes just means more single-night availability. The Express queues will be just as full, but they’ll be full of people paying $180+ per night vs. $10 per night.

 

[RedRightDan]

Anybody thinking this was a move to thin out Express Lines is kidding themselves IMO. Less multi-night Express passes just means more single-night availability. The Express queues will be just as full, but they’ll be full of people paying $180+ per night vs. $10 per night.

Honestly, I think it’s a little of both.

Clear out more of the people paying less to get better control over the total number of folks in express…who are now paying more on average

 

[johnathanm]

Now you know how I feel, lol. Every time I post, somebody responds like they are answering a different question.


I have no idea what you're talking about. How is that a response to my question?

I was actually just agreeing with you here. Specifically agreeing on this logic:

Wouldn't each person that opted out of express this year stand in the other line, making the regular line longer than usual? Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but…

 

[Tbad556]

Anybody thinking this was a move to thin out Express Lines is kidding themselves IMO. Less multi-night Express passes just means more single-night availability. The Express queues will be just as full, but they’ll be full of people paying $180+ per night vs. $10 per night.

Whether it plays out that way or not, I genuinely have no issue with this. More unique guests getting to experience the houses via express > the same people blowing through the express lines 4 times a week. This isn't just a financial gain for Universal. It's just straight up a better experience for a larger number of unique visitors.

 

[IzzyB]

Weak economy, weak IPs, epic opens in the spring, I bet universal is just trying to induce demand by limiting supply, meaning all tickets will be available soon

I don't think this was to induce demand. It seems the IPs are not stopping people from going at all and we really don't have a weak economy. You know how many people are going to Europe or other expensive vacations these days? It is kind of crazy how much spending is really out there in the US compared to other countries. What actually may be harming Orlando is just this, domestic spending is down and people from other countries can't afford to come here.

you know,
if universal does not want people to hang out in the streets or the zones and if they don't want hhn to become a hangout spot,
why offer 30 days in a ffp ticket for people to hang out at hhn?
feel like I'm taking crazy pills..... isn't universal shooting itself on the foot by continuing ffp tickets on sale?
I truly don't get this. why allow them to enter the park for 30 days?

and I know someone could reply to me with :
" but you are NOT supposed to visit all 30 days"
or "because most people never use all 30 days, most people are busy"
or "universal expects you to skip some of those days "

but why give the option to begin with?
it's like, why even tempt people? specially kids and teens, they dont have jobs. their parents are more than happy to drop them off at universal every hhn day. that's literally what I did in 2007 and 2008..........

everyone always brings up how teens are such a huge problem.... but universal literally provides them with multiple access....

I agree they probably need to scrap the season tickets and move to a multi-night offering where you pick your weeks you go. This would reduce the hangout mentality.

This forum: spends 10 months on endless speculation and grasping at any vague clue posted on twitter.

Also this forum: ONce peR hOusE iS fINe

I don't think anyone really was saying you only needed once. I got the impression most were saying you don't need to go 40 days and see all 10 houses every day. Which is what the higher passes with express allow. You can still go 40 days, you just can't see every house every day. You can still get probably 20 runs of every house without express.

Not saying it’s the right or wrong way - but having everyone queue up for a set drop time probably would’ve incited another set of complaints.

Agreed. At first I thought that was their one mistake, but honestly limiting number of passes really was going to anger people no matter what, even though I truly think this is a step in the right direction.

I keep reading that shorter express lines means the other line will be shorter as well. Can somebody please explain this logic to me? Wouldn't each person that opted out of express this year stand in the other line, making the regular line longer than usual? Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but the more I read on here, the more I think people should let Universal handle the logistics, lol.

Because someone who has FFP+express go into 10 houses every night and now they cannot. So those people will be limited, see less houses every night, making lines shorter for all. It really does work. When Disney had no FP during Covid the lines and waits were WAY less than they are when they added Genie+. Basically everyone gets less stuff but the lines you do go into are shorter.

Anybody thinking this was a move to thin out Express Lines is kidding themselves IMO. Less multi-night Express passes just means more single-night availability. The Express queues will be just as full, but they’ll be full of people paying $180+ per night vs. $10 per night.

Yes, it allows more single day, but I assume those sold out very infrequently. Only so many people will pay a single day express price. It for sure overall will reduce how many have express in an evening.

 

[Brian G.]

Anybody thinking this was a move to thin out Express Lines is kidding themselves IMO. Less multi-night Express passes just means more single-night availability. The Express queues will be just as full, but they’ll be full of people paying $180+ per night vs. $10 per night.

When you really think about, this doesn’t make that much sense. As @IzzyB mentioned, both offerings rarely sold out or had a cap - so you had a good amount of years of data to see attendance growing and lines growing but barely any cap on Express.

Now there is.

 

[Bort]

If I was a local who was genuinely worried right now, I would buy RoF w/ Express to cover the first 4 weeks, and then purchase a second (most applicable) Frequent Fear level for October.

You’d get almost 20 days worth of Express to see all your favorites as much as you’d like, then the last month you just prioritize what you’re willing to do standby for.

Edit: spelling is difficult

 

[SeventyOne]

There’s a huge difference between express being long and express being longer than standby. Which I also don’t recall. I recall the express being long. Not saying it didn’t happen, just that I don’t recall seen it.

Outside a handful of outlier nights/houses, Express is not longer than standby. My point is that the very existence of Express increases the waits in Standby exponentially. The busier the former gets, the latter gets even longer. This move should reduce standby lines in addition to Express -- if it doesn't, if those remain 60+, then it has failed.

I keep reading that shorter express lines means the other line will be shorter as well. Can somebody please explain this logic to me? Wouldn't each person that opted out of express this year stand in the other line, making the regular line longer than usual? Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but the more I read on here, the more I think people should let Universal handle the logistics, lol.

This made more of a splash in Disney circles when it came out, and yeah, another ridiculously long YouTube video, but this explains what I assume Universal is trying to do:

If I was a local who was genuinely worried right now, I would buy RoF w/ Express to cover the first 4 weeks, and then purchase a second (most applicable) Frequent Fear level for October.

You’d get almost 20 days worth of Express to see all your favorites as much as you’d like, then the last month you just prioritize what you’re willing to do standby for.

Or take the $600 extra you'd have dropped with FF and put that toward multiple single night Express. Do it smart, can probably get 4 nights (more if you're willing to take a chance on after 11). Not the same, but a nice mix of nights to take at your own pace and guaranteed nights you'll see everything.

Because someone who has FFP+express go into 10 houses every night and now they cannot. So those people will be limited, see less houses every night, making lines shorter for all. It really does work. When Disney had no FP during Covid the lines and waits were WAY less than they are when they added Genie+. Basically everyone gets less stuff but the lines you do go into are shorter.

Best real life example I have is from a Frontierland CM friend. Years ago on NYE--busiest night of the year--the FastPass machines broke down for Big Thunder. So it just ran without FastPass pretty much all day. Splash Mountain got up to 3 hour waits (it's FastPass was still working)--Big Thunder never went above an hour.

 

[Tobias]

Hope you didn't get bed bugs. Also thanks for the $100k in donations!

I was in the Westin, so no bedbug issues there. And you're very welcome!
Also, I performed to Hadestown on Sunday, to which I thank you for getting me hooked on that musical.