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Sony/Marvel Spider-Man Deal

Ryan

Staff member
Moderator
May 23, 2013
4,434
If Sony indeed came back with counter-offers and Disney refused, that's a different story. However, at the same time I don't consider Sony an "underdog" against "big bad Disney". I earnestly think that some are letting their emotions towards loyalty in the fandom get in the way of viewing the bigger picture: this is two corporations have a very public and unfortunate spat that's essentially a game of chicken. Both are wealthy corporations, yet at the same time I don't think a separate arrangement is good for either studio. Spider-Verse is a miracle birthed out of SPA, not from Sony's much more problematic live-action division.

On the same side of the coin, I think Disney is also getting too demanding if they were unwilling to hear another offer. I don't think the polarizing discourse of "screw Sony!" or "screw Disney!" is adding anything to these negotiations as it's very clear that's exactly what each company wants. Granted, the dial is more on the Sony side because most people remember that live-action Spidey has not done well in 15 years outside of the MCU. Yet gnashing one's teeth over Disney doesn't really solve things... it only worsens the discourse.

I see frustration coming out @Joe and others, and I get where that's coming from but I'd rather look at the situation from a 10,000ft view (and this is coming after a couple days to sleep on it, if anybody wants to cherry pick)... I look towards James Gunn which spent, how long... a year? In "most definitely never" territory only to be reversed. The corporations WANT you to think this is a done deal, because that'll help sway how negotiations will go. Until the first live-action Spidey goes into production without Feige onboard, I don't believe it's over for now.

They don't own 60% of the box office. The control to Box Office big time, yes, but according to Box Office Mojo, Disney has 37.1% of the market share right now + Fox's 3.7%. So the own slightly over 40%. Yes, that's still a HUGE chunk, but 60% is literally 33% more than they actually have.
True, but let's also not forget that a large amount of that is audience demand. You can talk about how Disney has been bullying theaters about the first runs, but that still does not account for the massively low turnout for other films.
 

MrBlonde

Rookie
Aug 7, 2018
319
If Sony indeed came back with counter-offers and Disney refused, that's a different story. However, at the same time I don't consider Sony an "underdog" against "big bad Disney". I earnestly think that some are letting their emotions towards loyalty in the fandom get in the way of viewing the bigger picture: this is two corporations have a very public and unfortunate spat that's essentially a game of chicken. Both are wealthy corporations, yet at the same time I don't think a separate arrangement is good for either studio. Spider-Verse is a miracle birthed out of SPA, not from Sony's much more problematic live-action division.

On the same side of the coin, I think Disney is also getting too demanding if they were unwilling to hear another offer. I don't think the polarizing discourse of "screw Sony!" or "screw Disney!" is adding anything to these negotiations as it's very clear that's exactly what each company wants.
I’m pretty sure that all of the leaking of this situation is done on Sony’s part to get the public outcry. Disney never seems to have made official comments besides Feige is busy.

Re: the size-Disney by market cap is almost 4x as big but that’s also determined by their sheer dominance of their content vs their competitors, but it’s still a millionaires’ pillow fight with piles of money.

Both sides can make more money together than they will apart, but Sony doesn’t have a cohesive vision so the fact that Disney wants control over anything they have the right to use freaks them out because it limits their options rather than thinking about how integrated they can be.

If I were them, I’d make a deal and every time a character they have the rights to is used in a Disney made film, they get a % of the box office according to their importance to the storyline. (I.e. a Dark Avengers with Norman Osborn leading the team would be significant vs a Civil War-sized cameo of Spider-Man.)
 

Mad Dog

Premium Member
Jan 30, 2013
18,531
Pittsburgh area
Sad to hear that. Supposedly Stan's last years were pretty tough anyway as he was prodded into too many appearances for a man his age, to try to make up for a few past bad financial decisions. As one who was reading Stan's comics from FF first appearance onward, and has over 4000 Marvel comics (most from 60's and 70's), Marvel and Disney should have treated him better, both as the creative life behind most of the A list characters, and financially. Hell, out of the billions they were making they surely could have given him enough to live comfortably off of, instead of having to drag himself into appearances in his old age to try to make a living. Shame on Marvel/Disney. ....Damn, this is a bad week for Disney's rep.
 

Paulio

Veteran Member
Apr 28, 2016
1,034
Northern California
Sad to hear that. Supposedly Stan's last years were pretty tough anyway as he was prodded into too many appearances for a man his age, to try to make up for a few past bad financial decisions. As one who was reading Stan's comics from FF first appearance onward, and has over 4000 Marvel comics (most from 60's and 70's), Marvel and Disney should have treated him better, both as the creative life behind most of the A list characters, and financially. Hell, out of the billions they were making they surely could have given him enough to live comfortably off of, instead of having to drag himself into appearances in his old age to try to make a living. Shame on Marvel/Disney. ....Damn, this is a bad week for Disney's rep.
Unfortunately even worse, after this news came out, many Disney fanboys on the internet provided damage control by accusing Stan Lee's daughter of abusing her father where none really exists. It just makes them look really bad on their part.
 

Mad Dog

Premium Member
Jan 30, 2013
18,531
Pittsburgh area
Unfortunately even worse, after this news came out, many Disney fanboys on the internet provided damage control by accusing Stan Lee's daughter of abusing her father where none really exists. It just makes them look really bad on their part.
Now we're no longer sure if those are fan boys or Disney social media plants, after the Mice Chat 'possible' scandal came out earlier this week.
 

Freak

Veteran Member
Jan 10, 2013
4,050
No man's land: SoCal
Now we're no longer sure if those are fan boys or Disney social media plants, after the Mice Chat 'possible' scandal came out earlier this week.
*tin foil hat time*

With this happening, it makes Disney cooking the books far more believable and...dare I say it...Disney buying out Capt Marvel slots seem far more believable with all of that backlash. (Say what you want about that, but when they used Stan Lee’s PERSONAL Twitter account to promote it, that wouldn’t surprise me). Disney has been so shady lately nothing would surprise me anymore. Really disgusting how they treated Stan’s daughter.

There’s clearly fault on both ends (Sony and Disney) and I hope negotiations will keep going.
 
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Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
20,389
Orlando
Weren’t there rumors just like this with the first Venom with them even saying that the movie was filmed R and then changed to PG-13 before any of the cross over stuff was even discussed.
They may have been unsure if Venom as a character would hit so they went safer with PG-13. Now that they know how well Venom did financially, going R-rated is a lot easier as you already are a known entity and don’t need to worry how people will respond to the character. People loved Hardy as Venom.
 
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Paulio

Veteran Member
Apr 28, 2016
1,034
Northern California
Tom Holland on Spider-Man's future following Disney-Sony rift | EW.com

It looks like Tom Holland said during D23 backstage that Disney has no new plans to include Spider-Man in future MCU films and that future Spider-Man movies with Sony alone and without MCU will be different, as he's still in contract with Sony Pictures. There may be doubts whether Disney and Sony could team up again, but the future potential deal between Disney and Sony is pretty much non-existent due to the circumstances of both companies involved.
 

Freak

Veteran Member
Jan 10, 2013
4,050
No man's land: SoCal
I will admit that I’m trying to cling to any small bit of hope that I can, but I refuse to believe they’ll just let this go. I’m sure they’re going to keep pursuing negotiations.
 

Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
20,389
Orlando
That’s the ballgame, folks. I had hope they’d reach a deal, I really did. But when Supreme Leader Feige and Spider-Man both come out with solid statements like that, it’s over.

(Unless Feige’s playing hard ball to basically say they don’t need Spider-Man in hopes that they’ll come back to the table)

At least I have PS4’s Spider-Man sequel to look forward to. The PS4 Spider-Man game was the best Spidey story ever told on screen, after all.
 

zg44

Member
Jun 5, 2017
944
Yeah, I just don't see what kind of deal would work at this point. Disney doesn't want to give up precious MCU slots if they're not getting a significant portion of profit in exchange. They've got tons of characters like X-Men/FF to go through...

Sony doesn't want to give up a significant portion of the profit.

Sometimes, it's that simple. We got 5 Spiderman MCU films including 2 solo. Now I'd imagine Sony will try to do a separate Spiderman trilogy with Holland that will anchor a new "Spiderverse" with Venom/Morbius/Black Cat etc....
 
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Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
20,389
Orlando
Yeah, I just don't see what kind of deal would work at this point. Disney doesn't want to give up precious MCU slots if they're not getting a significant portion of profit in exchange. They've got tons of characters like X-Men/FF to go through...

Sony doesn't want to give up a significant portion of the profit.

Sometimes, it's that simple. We got 5 Spiderman MCU films including 2 solo. Now I'd imagine Sony will try to do a separate Spiderman trilogy with Holland that will anchor a new "Spiderverse" with Venom/Morbius/Black Cat etc....
I imagine he’ll be introduced to Sony’s Spider-verse through Venom 2. The pressure is certainly on Sony to make good Spider-Man movies though, that part is for sure.
 

Mad Dog

Premium Member
Jan 30, 2013
18,531
Pittsburgh area
Yeah, I just don't see what kind of deal would work at this point. Disney doesn't want to give up precious MCU slots if they're not getting a significant portion of profit in exchange. They've got tons of characters like X-Men/FF to go through...

Sony doesn't want to give up a significant portion of the profit.

Sometimes, it's that simple. We got 5 Spiderman MCU films including 2 solo. Now I'd imagine Sony will try to do a separate Spiderman trilogy with Holland that will anchor a new "Spiderverse" with Venom/Morbius/Black Cat etc....
Yes. Most especially, Fantastic Four and it's related heroes and villains have been underused, and poorly used. FF was Marvel's flag ship, even more than Spidey, in the 60's and 70's. It's high sales, and spin off comics, kept the Marvel franchise going. X-Men has been pretty exposed, but there's still possibilities if the early movie quality returns.