TEA/AECOM Attendance Report 2022

[UniversalRBLX]

Both in their own way benefits from lines
HHN is almost impossible to do without a front of the line pass

Also if I went to epic universe, no way I’d do it without a pass, maybe locals don’t have to but I feel like universal is pretty unfun without a pass unless it’s a slow day because they heavily push to let the express line move and make standby people wait

True, but Universal's parks have the advantage of having multiple E-tickets with decent capacity versus Disney's abysmal capacity record. So if one ride at Universal goes down, it won't really impact standby waits too much, but at DAK for example, it'll be felt across the board.

 

[Tbad556]

Disney park revenue slumps in Orlando but grows globally

Attendance, income slumped in third quarter at Walt Disney World, but Asian parks thrived

www.orlandosentinel.com

 

[Jake S]

there's another $150 million starcruiser depreciation charge forecasted for the fourth quarter.

 

[Mad Dog]

Bet most of that WDW revenue increase from 2019 isn't attendance. Big cost increases in food/beverage, merchandise, hotel rooms, tickets and replacement of free fastpass with paid Genie plus and Lightening Lane, are probably what has really driven the revenue increase. The big lie.

 

[Cygnus]

yes I know it's hard to believe but people still visit WDW in droves.

 

[Mad Dog]

yes I know it's hard to believe but people still visit WDW in droves.

Yes they do....but the droves have flattened out, if not decreased a bit.

 

[wutisgood]

Both in their own way benefits from lines
HHN is almost impossible to do without a front of the line pass

Also if I went to epic universe, no way I’d do it without a pass, maybe locals don’t have to but I feel like universal is pretty unfun without a pass unless it’s a slow day because they heavily push to let the express line move and make standby people wait

I have done universal without express for years until last year with the hurricane where we couldn't stay as late due to schedule changes. It has to be in September.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Iger made the excuse that the reason people weren't coming to WDW as much....is because people came for the 50th in 2022....what a lame excuse. Well maybe if you had some attractions, new lands and didn't cut the Epcot Project down then people would keep coming but no. Iger refuses to want to increase spending in the park. I just will never understand how CEO's get paid this much to just do the bare minimum at their job, the man has no business or creative reasons to be running the company.

 

[Cygnus]

i must be confused, because disney opened tron this year, guardians last year, ratatouille in 2021, MMRR in 2020, galaxys edge and rise of the resistance in 2019,etc....

i also dont get why regular people care about attendance but that's just me

 

[Mad Dog]

The national media has been concentrating on WDW attendance the past couple of months. It's a focus issue, and almost a perfect conversation piece for theme park forums. Myself, I don't pick sides, I love both Disney and Universal parks, but neither company is perfect and subject to criticism if there's management failings that negatively affect the guest experience. New attractions don't always make up for management decisions that make a vacation less satisfying.

 

[Jerroddragon]

i must be confused, because disney opened tron this year, guardians last year, ratatouille in 2021, MMRR in 2020, galaxys edge and rise of the resistance in 2019,etc....

i also dont get why regular people care about attendance but that's just me

lol

your in a Attendance Thread...it's like going to a the Box Office Reddit and asking why they care what a movie made.


All 4 of those rides are either clones or cloned to other parks. Tron is the most "exclusive" feeling to me because it's from China (which are the hardest parks to get to in my opinion).
GOTG is cool but isn't something people feel like traveling across the country for let alone the world.

Galaxy Edge to many is a let down because of where it's set and which characters are the focus. Everyone online can talk about how there is people who love the sequels....but those fans are clearly not that large of a group since attendance didn't spike and the hotel based around the same characters, failed and was shut down.

Disney is getting lots of hate online not only for how they are treating their writers/actors. They are also doing things like theming down hotels in Florida. The Parks at least over here at Disneyland are seeing rides go down because of the lack of a senior maintenance team, which in one way or another lead to the Dragon burning it self down with no replacement. They also keep taking on debt for Apps and movies for NO reason, the parks are making them money so that is where money should go not back into the MCU where they need to cut back on trying to add more characters resulting in longer more boring films, they need to look at how Ironman with its simple budget made people love a character no one cared about.

Disney also seems to have ZERO plans for the future parks wise, Avatar land is a ways off here in CA and in Florida after Splash retheme, we know nothing of whats next but we do know LARGE projects have been pitched but they aren't acting on any, as Epic Universe is set to open in two years and that park sounds like what a theme park in 2025 should be with exciting new idea's and what sounds like amazing theming.

Point is Disney isn't putting much effort into their parks to make them feel unique or adding what guests what

 

[Jake S]

All 4 of those rides are either clones or cloned to other parks. Tron is the most "exclusive" feeling to me because it's from China (which are the hardest parks to get to in my opinion).

most people visiting orlando either a) don't know or b) don't care that those attractions are clones.

you're welcome to your critiques of how disney is managing its theme parks, some of which I absolutely share, but I remain unconvinced a slow down in attendance happening across orlando has much to do with genie plus or a canceled epcot addition most didn't even know about. it's much, much more likely that travel to orlando was outsized in 2021 and 2022 and we're seeing a natural regression to the mean.

I'd add that the film/entertainment side of the business has just about nothing to do with the theme park business.

 

[Cygnus]

lol

your in a Attendance Thread...it's like going to a the Box Office Reddit and asking why they care what a movie made.


All 4 of those rides are either clones or cloned to other parks. Tron is the most "exclusive" feeling to me because it's from China (which are the hardest parks to get to in my opinion).
GOTG is cool but isn't something people feel like traveling across the country for let alone the world.

Galaxy Edge to many is a let down because of where it's set and which characters are the focus. Everyone online can talk about how there is people who love the sequels....but those fans are clearly not that large of a group since attendance didn't spike and the hotel based around the same characters, failed and was shut down.

Disney is getting lots of hate online not only for how they are treating their writers/actors. They are also doing things like theming down hotels in Florida. The Parks at least over here at Disneyland are seeing rides go down because of the lack of a senior maintenance team, which in one way or another lead to the Dragon burning it self down with no replacement. They also keep taking on debt for Apps and movies for NO reason, the parks are making them money so that is where money should go not back into the MCU where they need to cut back on trying to add more characters resulting in longer more boring films, they need to look at how Ironman with its simple budget made people love a character no one cared about.

Disney also seems to have ZERO plans for the future parks wise, Avatar land is a ways off here in CA and in Florida after Splash retheme, we know nothing of whats next but we do know LARGE projects have been pitched but they aren't acting on any, as Epic Universe is set to open in two years and that park sounds like what a theme park in 2025 should be with exciting new idea's and what sounds like amazing theming.

Point is Disney isn't putting much effort into their parks to make them feel unique or adding what guests what

your opinions on "quality" is a different point. a new addition is a new addition. 99% of guests will never visit Shanghai or DLP, so yes they are new additions.
as for future plans, why would an addition in 2025, 2026 affect attendance in 2022 and 2023? there are many macro factors that affect travel and attendance patterns, but ultimately it's like looking at the S&P daily swings, which doesnt matter when its up long-term. you have no idea what you're talking about.

normal people are not terminally online and do not follow rumor speculation and construction updates every microsecond, they see a new thing and go wow its a new thing thats so cool.

 

[Nico]

I would also like to remind everyone of the political climate in Florida. Convention centers are losing cons, tourist centers are down up and down the state. There are issued travel advisories for many people. Not saying that’s the only thing that’s happening; most of what Jarrod said is also true.

I do find it fascinating that Disney’s attendance is what’s dominating the news cycle and not the realities of Florida.

 

[Mad Dog]

Some of us on IU have been talking about the drop off in attendance since sometime in March, which is when it began at both Universal and Disney. Myriad reasons, plus the 2022 post covid boom that many of us guessed was going to happen (in 2020/2021 on various posts on IU), along with an expected 2023 drop. But the national media didn't really pick up on it until the 4th of July weekend at WDW, which was such a drastic drop from past summers, even though summer attendance has slowed a bit for the past 5 or 6 years. Those drastic scenes of very uncrowded parks are what captured the attention of the national media , even the business shows. And, Iger's comments that it happened because it was 'hot' didn't play very well.

 

[Jerroddragon]

most people visiting orlando either a) don't know or b) don't care that those attractions are clones.

you're welcome to your critiques of how disney is managing its theme parks, some of which I absolutely share, but I remain unconvinced a slow down in attendance happening across orlando has much to do with genie plus or a canceled epcot addition most didn't even know about. it's much, much more likely that travel to orlando was outsized in 2021 and 2022 and we're seeing a natural regression to the mean.

I'd add that the film/entertainment side of the business has just about nothing to do with the theme park business.

I mean in a way it does, if you aren’t seeing newer films then you don’t have a connection to what’s coming to the parks along with some not liking Disney “politics” in films leading them to not wanting to go the parks. But I know a few people who just refuse to watch new Disney stuff because X topic is in it.

Also I can with certain say of people thought they had quality rides they would come.
SNW to me shows that if you have an IP people are excited about they will come but Disney isn’t adding exciting IPs.

I love Tron but no one saw either film or the tv show. If the MCU was added when it was hot it would gain more people but they are having the rides come out at the peak of fans just not caring about the characters and Disney for whatever reason thinks it’s a good idea to add avatar later to Disneyland, not now when the movie just came out and is a hot IP but years from now when who knows if it will still be popular or not.

Just my two cents but I just feel like Disney is not adding the right kinda experiences and when they do it’s years too late. They need to find quicker ways to build things, along with doing more exciting events.

 

[Disneyhead]

Disney has "99 Problems and the..."

Go!

 

[SeventyOne]

most people visiting orlando either a) don't know or b) don't care that those attractions are clones.

you're welcome to your critiques of how disney is managing its theme parks, some of which I absolutely share, but I remain unconvinced a slow down in attendance happening across orlando has much to do with genie plus or a canceled epcot addition most didn't even know about. it's much, much more likely that travel to orlando was outsized in 2021 and 2022 and we're seeing a natural regression to the mean.

I'd add that the film/entertainment side of the business has just about nothing to do with the theme park business.

While I agree with your first point, your second ignores the fact there is a spectrum between "tourists who know nothing" and "frequent posters on IU." Karen in NJ doesn't know/care Tron is a clone but she reads on Facebook and hears from the other moms in Jadyn's class what a cluster Genie+ is and how EPCOT is nothing but a 15 minute walk past construction walls et cetera. Also, unique to WDW are the "whales" who used to come down twice a year or more. They talk on social media, too. Anecdotally a fair number seem to have reached their breaking point as well, at least enough to cut down to once a year. These are all factors unique to Disney, not Florida.

That said, the boom/bust cycle across the state a factor as well, I don't think anyone saying its one thing.

I will add, treading lightly as always with this subject on here, I think politics on both side is also a factor, probably minor, but difficult to measure. And it shows the tie-in between the parks and films divisions. WDW threw together a pop-up Frozen attraction and show in a couple months to drive attendance to DHS after that film was a hit. Pirates suddenly had routine wait times over 10 minutes after Jack Sparrow hit the screen. We routinely get characters from hit films out in the park. If Lightyear or Strange World had been a billion-dollar hit, we'd see the parks capitalize on it; it's not crazy to think the lack of that ability is another factor in lower crowds.

 

[Jake S]

While I agree with your first point, your second ignores the fact there is a spectrum between "tourists who know nothing" and "frequent posters on IU." Karen in NJ doesn't know/care Tron is a clone but she reads on Facebook and hears from the other moms in Jadyn's class what a cluster Genie+ is and how EPCOT is nothing but a 15 minute walk past construction walls et cetera.

that's not really what I'm saying, though. I'm saying that most visitors do not know or care that attractions like tron are clones. separately, I'm saying I'm unconvinced that frustration with genie+ (etc.) is leading to a marked slowdown in 2023 attendance when we're seeing a remarkably similar slowdown at the other orlando parks.

totally agree that there are many factors leading to a slower 2023 than 2022, but at this point I'm inclined to believe it was inevitable because of how much tourism the area received a year ago.

 

[Disneyhead]

that's not really what I'm saying, though. I'm saying that most visitors do not know or care that attractions like tron are clones. separately, I'm saying I'm unconvinced that frustration with genie+ (etc.) is leading to a marked slowdown in 2023 attendance when we're seeing a remarkably similar slowdown at the other orlando parks.

totally agree that there are many factors leading to a slower 2023 than 2022, but at this point I'm inclined to believe it was inevitable because of how much tourism the area received a year ago.

Yes, the vast majority of WDW guests neither know, nor care that Tron is a clone from China. Most don't even know that Disney has a park in China. And if they did, they would give the thumbs up because they will NEVER be in China and they can ride it.

EVERYONE did Orlando post COVID because cruises were shut down, international travel was shut down, but FL was wide open.

And while the local market is softening from last year, we are still above 2019's (the last year before COVID) numbers.

I don't see major alarm bells going off for the Orlando market in general. Although, Disney has a few issues to work through.