Universal's Crowding

[shiekra38]

Universal HAS succeeded in keeping people in the parks later with CineSpec but it's time for 2.0 if they want to keep it up. A plussed-up nighttime version of the Superstar Parade would definitely help too, but like others said, it needs double the floats (not sure what they were thinking there).

Disney makes MK a destination at night with the fireworks and the nighttime parade for MK, and nighttime shows for Epcot and DHS. Of course, people leave in droves after each showing of those too so that's inevitable, just like at Universal.

You know I was thinking (always dangerous)..I wouldn't mind seeing an evening show that only took place a couple of times in the afternoon...with singing and audio-visuals, etc...then a nighttime parade and firework show to cap everything off...

I still think people are staying later then they used too..for us seasoned pass holder we knock out everything in a couple hours...for the first timer or those that come once every few years it is an all day event for both parks...especially with DA, Hogsmede, Transformers, Springfield and soon, Kong...I don't think Universal is failing in keeping people in, rather they could do more to keep more

 

[Mad Dog]

10:00 PM crowds...Busy to the end...DM 70 minutes, ET 20, Gringotts 60, Hogwarts 15, MIB 20, Mummy 20, Rip Ride Rocket 90, Transformers 45.....Forbidden Journey 75, Dragon Challenge 15, Spiderman 30, Hippogriff 10, Hogwarts 15

 

[OrlandoGuy]

Universal has been hitting over the expected attendance numbers for almost two weeks now. They are doing great. One of the best attended Christmas Peaks they've ever had.

I'm not saying I don't believe you but would you mind sharing what source you got this from? It's a bit off from what I have been hearing.

 

[epcyclopedia]

Blah blah.. nothing I say represents UO in any way shape or form.. blah blah blah.

I think the "issue" so to speak is a number of factors..

Guests aren't spending a "full day" in the parks and when they are, they're actually not in lines.. or restaurants.. or anywhere to be "counted" really. They sent half the staff home one day at Hogsmeade because the people were there in peak numbers but no one was in line for rides or food. They were just "there."

Also, the good ole Disney number of 8-9 things.. includes a meal. How many people do a sit down meal at UO? Very few. They need expanded sit down dining to really expand the guest day. People will leave the parks for food in CityWalk (that worked!) but they don't go back into the parks (boo!)

Then there's the "Disneyland" problem.. or the reverse of it. Remember how DCA used to be a ghost town and no one went to it but DL was flooded with people and busting at the seams? Now after relaunch the two parks have more people than ever but seem very quiet? Adding Diagon did the same for IOA/USF. People are there.. they're spread out and about and.. well.. no one knows what they're doing but they'r ethere. Research into what the heck they're doing is a big part of figuring this all out. From what I can tell, everyone is baffled.

As for Diagon.. two types of guests. "I made a trip here to see it" - and those people know where it is, where to get in, where to go for the Hogwarts Express, etc.. then "Tourists." No clue where it is, what it is, or how to get into it. They stroll on past it oblivious to it's existence. It's the problem Epcot had and still has "There's no rides here!" because the rides are all inside of pavilions/building. The avg is practically braindead in this sense. They don't see a track, it doesn't exist. It's not a "ride" is they don't see a track. This explains the popularity of the Seuss Trolly Train Ride. (I refuse to accept any other explanation for its seemingly endless popularity in terms of wait time lately.)

And a random note.. the new offerings all do well, the longest anyone seems willing to wait is for... randomly enough.. Minion Mayhem.. and while Transformers and Gringotts and Hogwarts all do well, it's Mummy that sees a crap ton of guests each day. It's a "fan favorite" and i think guests think it's the loading area for Rip Ride Rockit due to proximity of the track to Mummy's entrance.

 

[quinnmac000]

More so I think the problem is, most of the people in the parks right now are pass holders and not new visitors. Pass holders who can come anytime aren't going to stay super late if they can just come back tomorrow or the next day to do what they want again.

 

[darkridelover]

Blah blah.. nothing I say represents UO in any way shape or form.. blah blah blah.

I think the "issue" so to speak is a number of factors..

Guests aren't spending a "full day" in the parks and when they are, they're actually not in lines.. or restaurants.. or anywhere to be "counted" really. They sent half the staff home one day at Hogsmeade because the people were there in peak numbers but no one was in line for rides or food. They were just "there."

Also, the good ole Disney number of 8-9 things.. includes a meal. How many people do a sit down meal at UO? Very few. They need expanded sit down dining to really expand the guest day. People will leave the parks for food in CityWalk (that worked!) but they don't go back into the parks (boo!)

Then there's the "Disneyland" problem.. or the reverse of it. Remember how DCA used to be a ghost town and no one went to it but DL was flooded with people and busting at the seams? Now after relaunch the two parks have more people than ever but seem very quiet? Adding Diagon did the same for IOA/USF. People are there.. they're spread out and about and.. well.. no one knows what they're doing but they'r ethere. Research into what the heck they're doing is a big part of figuring this all out. From what I can tell, everyone is baffled.

As for Diagon.. two types of guests. "I made a trip here to see it" - and those people know where it is, where to get in, where to go for the Hogwarts Express, etc.. then "Tourists." No clue where it is, what it is, or how to get into it. They stroll on past it oblivious to it's existence. It's the problem Epcot had and still has "There's no rides here!" because the rides are all inside of pavilions/building. The avg is practically braindead in this sense. They don't see a track, it doesn't exist. It's not a "ride" is they don't see a track. This explains the popularity of the Seuss Trolly Train Ride. (I refuse to accept any other explanation for its seemingly endless popularity in terms of wait time lately.)

And a random note.. the new offerings all do well, the longest anyone seems willing to wait is for... randomly enough.. Minion Mayhem.. and while Transformers and Gringotts and Hogwarts all do well, it's Mummy that sees a crap ton of guests each day. It's a "fan favorite" and i think guests think it's the loading area for Rip Ride Rockit due to proximity of the track to Mummy's entrance.

They never sent half the staff home. And the reason why Minion Mayhem has a long line is because the capacity is terrible. It serves a third of the people that ride Transformers and Hogwarts. Meaning way less people ride it. Same thing with Suess Trolly. It's not because its visible, its because it has low capacity. And Epcot doesn't have very many rides.

 

[kimlovesfl]

You all haven't been working there this last week. Dec 26 was packed, much more so than usual, and Dec 27 was packed as well, at least as many in attendance as in the past 4 years. And when I left last night at 10:15, USF was still hopping with throngs of people everywhere, and CW was busy as well.

Thanksgiving is never super busy for us, I think that is a holiday where most people go to Disney, except for passholders. Busier than a normal weekend in November, but not packed to the rafters. Christmas, however, has been tremendous.

Minion Mayhem is the FIRST thing people see when they walk in the park, and that accounts for its popularity, and people love the minions. I wish we had something other than Terminator in Hollywood to draw some people over there and help disperse the crowds.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

You all haven't been working there this last week. Dec 26 was packed, much more so than usual, and Dec 27 was packed as well, at least as many in attendance as in the past 4 years

That's pretty much what has been said...

Since you work there, I'd love to hear what your experiences were leading up to Christmas in terms of crowd. Was it what was expected, were you overstaffed/understaffed, etc.? While you're at it, what did you think of summer crowds? I know Universal gives its employees projected attendance figures at the beginning of the day, plus you obviously get a good handle on what guests are doing in your area that you work in. What's the deal been?

 

[Teebin]

kimlovesfl, do you have a sense of the percentage of APs on peak days? I cannot imagine any AP holder being interested in attending the parks during the peak times. I personally, stayed away until the turn of the year visiting only one last time in the first week of December.

 

[Mad Dog]

Diagon adds apx. 8,000 capacity according to Seth K., plus Transformers & Springfield added capacity. I keep saying it, but that's a heck of a lot more people the Studios can hold that it couldn't in the past. And, yes, the Diagon people are hidden from view. So there could be a huge attendance increase in the "Studios" on a day and no one, except for the executives who have the real attendance info, would actually know. And I also think some of the DCA effect is working here and IOA may be getting a basically flat increase while the Studios is getting the double digit percentage increase. But IOA should be back in the good when Kong opens. And I'd think the Hogwart's Express helps IOA to retain attendance since so many people are probably park hopping,especially between the two Potter areas. And I still believe added hotel rooms will increase evening attendance. You need to think like a tourist and not a local. Tourists like to go back to the rooms and pools to relax and stay out of the hot uncomfortable Florida afternoons. Once a local comes he or she will stay till its time for them to leave for the day.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

Diagon adds apx. 8,000 capacity according to Seth K., plus Transformers & Springfield added capacity. I keep saying it, but that's a heck of a lot more people the Studios can hold that it couldn't in the past.

Yeah but in theory that increase in capacity should be negligible because the additions are supposed to attract more. Yeah, your idea works if Universal sees no increase in capacity and the same crowds from the last few years are spread out over more area. But Universal HAS increased attendance. Look at California Adventure, who added a ton of capacity but saw MORE crowding. That's what, theoretically, is supposed to happen here. And, for the last two days, it certainly has. Because the parks were still packed despite the new additions. For some reason, the beginning of the season was seemingly slow but the last couple of days took care of that.

And, yes, the Diagon people are hidden from view. So there could be a huge attendance increase in the "Studios" on a day and no one, except for the executives who have the real attendance info, would actually know.

Yesterday Universal hit 48,000…don't ask me how I know, but I'm not an executive……yet:sneaky:

And I also think some of the DCA effect is working here and IOA may be getting a basically flat increase while the Studios is getting the double digit percentage increase. But IOA should be back in the good when Kong opens. And I'd think the Hogwart's Express helps IOA to retain attendance since so many people are probably park hopping,especially between the two Potter areas.

Yeah, this is probably definitely true. Even though park-hopping was pretty easy before the Express, people who otherwise wouldn't be inclined to switch parks now do because the HE is a big-ticket attraction. Interesting to note is that when the lines on each side aren't even, the IOA side seems longer than the Universal side...

And I still believe added hotel rooms will increase evening attendance. You need to think like a tourist and not a local. Tourists like to go back to the rooms and pools to relax and stay out of the hot uncomfortable Florida afternoons. Once a local comes he or she will stay till its time for them to leave for the day.

Yeah, I'm still gonna disagree with you here The hotel guests have the luxury of more time and convenience. There's no need for them to be in the park all the way until 11 o'clock at night. Yeah, I'll give you that they probably go in the morning, come back for a break, and then head back out, but for most people on vacation 11 PM is still late to be out and about. Plus, for the hotels that don't have Express Pass (and even for those that do who love Potter), early entry is the name of the game and that's pretty dang early--7 AM on peak days. I don't know about you, but my idea of vacation is not to get to sleep around midnight and wake up before 7 AM the next day, and I have a feeling most tourists would be with me on that one. I would say the longer hours are more beneficial to off-site guests or one-day trippers who need to see everything in one day.

 

[Mad Dog]

Once again, as I said, good idea for a post.Nice discussion throwing these theories around....The thing with the DCA crowds is that its such a small park at 60 acres, whereas the Studios is almost twice that size to absorb the crowds. On late evenings I'm basically talking about the 8 to 10 PM crowds. That 11 pm to 3 am Disney stuff is too crazy for even me. The early entry doesn't appeal to a lot of people. It's a nice perk but I don't think people go crazy with it except for peak times. When I'm at Universal for two weeks I'll generally only do one early entry day. Don't really need it because of Express. And i've never seen a lot of early entry attendance when I've gone, but then again, that's during the non peak times....Today looks very busy at the start today. Here's apx. 11:00 AM lines.....DM 135 minutes , ET 30, Gringotts 105, Hogwats 30, Mummy 25, Rip Ride 90, Shrek 45, Simpsons 15, Trandformers 75.....CIH 15, Doom 35, Dragon Challenge 45, Forbidden Journey, 90, Hippogriff 30, Hulk 75, JP River 30, Spider Man 70................A contributing factor on people not staying in the evenings during non peak times may be that Universal, by closing so early so often over the years, may have acclimated their customers into leaving early. Just a theory though..... I love to go to theme parks in the evening. They look grander and, in Florida especially, its more comfortable. But I never get to see IOA in the dark since they close so darn early. When I'm at Disney, I'm more apt to be in the parks from 6 pm till 11:00 pm, then from 1:00 pm to 5;00 pm. I try to stay away from that those horrible Orlando afternoons as much as possible and go to the hotel pool instead.

 

[tielo]

I think the fact people leave for their hotels on properety and enjoy the many wctivities there is great for Universal.
The Only way to expend peoples stay is a nighttime parade, something along the mardi grass parade that is very popular. And lagoon shows that are better then movie clips and some lights. They could have at least try to put a story in there (the history of movies) and incorperate some huge structures with projection effects.
For Islands I could see the lagoon bring each island to life extending them into the lagoon.
I'm glad Universal are adding rides but they Only make up a few minuten each but shows extendind to 20 minutes. So adding 2 or 3 shows would be great.

 

[Mad Dog]

I think the fact people leave for their hotels on properety and enjoy the many wctivities there is great for Universal.
The Only way to expend peoples stay is a nighttime parade, something along the mardi grass parade that is very popular. And lagoon shows that are better then movie clips and some lights. They could have at least try to put a story in there (the history of movies) and incorperate some huge structures with projection effects.
For Islands I could see the lagoon bring each island to life extending them into the lagoon.
I'm glad Universal are adding rides but they Only make up a few minuten each but shows extendind to 20 minutes. So adding 2 or 3 shows would be great.

Some real good points....3:15 PM line times...Seems pretty crowded, especially IOA.....DM 120 minutes, Disaster 40, ET 45, Gringotts 90, Hogwarts 60, Mummy 45, Rip Ride 90, Shrek 25, Simpsons 45, Transformers 100.....Bilge Rat Barges 60 minutes, CIH 50, Doom 30, Dragon Challenge 60, Hogwarts 45, Hulk 45, JP River 90, Poseidon 75, Pterandon Flyers 75, Ripsaw Falls 90...

 

[kimlovesfl]

You can tell it's warm by
the wait times for the water rides, jeez!

There are some AP folks in the parks at this time, but not many, and most of them come in for Grinch and the parades.

It was a typical December as far as increase in attendance goes, only with more people than previous years-early December is slow, it starts picking up around Dec 19 or 20, then all hell breaks loose and the entire planet shows up starting Dec 26.

I don't work in attractions, so I can't speak to how well- or under-staffed they are, but my department is fully staffed for peak season; well, if everyone shows up, that is. Every year we are more and more prepared for peak season, and we also have to staff the Macy's parade. December is our busiest month of the year, by far. I've been working my butt off, that's for sure.

 

[boomerthom]

3:15 PM line times...Dragon Challenge 60

 

[Mad Dog]

Good one.LOL...At least with the line times we don't need to figure whether a day was busy or not....Here's 4:50 PM DM 120 minutes, Disaster 40, ET 45, Gringotts 120, Hogwarts 60, MIB 45, Mummy 60, Rip Ride 90, Simpsons 45, Transformers 90.....Bilge Rat 45, CIH 20, Doom 35, Dragon Challenge 60, Forbidden Journey 90, Hogwarts 45, Hulk 60, JP River 55, Poseidon 60, Pteranondon 75, Ripsaw 65, SpiderMan 65,

 

[darkridelover]

- - - Updated - - -

From Today!

 

[Teebin]

- - - Updated - - -

From Today!

Why that woman in the foreground is smiling is beyond me. Perhaps she was just released from prison???

Seriously, those crowds look dangerous and obnoxious.

 

[epcyclopedia]

That pic looks like Seuss right after a packed Grinchmas show lets out. It floods the area. If it coincides with Sinbad it's doubly so.

It'll become sane within a few minutes. It's like how MK can be at capacity and you can take pics of empty streets if you time it just right.

I think one big indicator would Diagon's queues for the shops and experiences. I havent seen those get put back up since the grand opening. If they go back up, I know the whole park is nutso.