What does USF need the most before Epic Universe opens?

[Mad Dog]

I mean, yes and no.

Even coming up on 50 years old, MK still has plenty of expansion room (some that is being used right now for Tron). As does Epcot and DAK. DHS even has a decent amount of expansion room if Disney chooses to use space correctly. Hitting 30 this year, there's only one plot really available for expansion at USF outside of tearing down the sound stages which I think is a last resort option. Same thing with IOA. Very few actual expansion plots left (one of the last major areas that was underused is now being used for the JP Coaster). IOA has a few areas for redevelopment, but really no expansion space.

It's just facts that USF and IOA are running on a finite amount of land and both are almost built out as far as usable land. Not all of the land is being used best though, which is why replacements need to continue to happen at USF. This park was truly a complete mess before Comcast took over and while it's much better, it still has a long ways to go. And there WILL be technical expansion because (for example) once they decide what to do with Kid Zone, that will add rides that people actually care about and that section of the park will be relevant. Replacing is not bad, especially when what you're replacing is poor to begin with.

I don't disagree with you. My only real point is that they're not going to replace the entire park again (USF), which they essentially did once already, within the 'next few years'. It will be a long drawn out process that works within a budget. ....The shame of the whole thing is that the most unpopular attraction in both Universal parks is USF's relatively brand new F&F attraction, which occupies a huge piece of property. That has tied their hands, to a degree, since it didn't serve it's purpose and produced terrible return on investment, and tied up budget and land that could have been better utilized. If that would have been the successful D/E ticket that it was meant to be, a lot of concerns about park balance would be less pronounced.

 

[PerceptiveCoot]

Hitting 30 this year, there's only one plot really available for expansion at USF outside of tearing down the sound stages which I think is a last resort option.

Sorry if the forum has litigated this before, but what about the 14 acres behind those Horror Nights tents by MIB? That always seemed like the next logical step to me.

 

[Nick]

Sorry if the forum has litigated this before, but what about the 14 acres behind those Horror Nights tents by MIB? That always seemed like the next logical step to me.

That was the plot I was talking about in the post you quoted...

 

[shiekra38]

And by the time they've completely replaced all of those, it'll be about time to seriously think about F&F and at the very least update Fallon. The man WILL age. HRRR will need a retrack or... something at some point. It needs it now if you ask me.

But once the park has reached it's max potential, I think we seriously need to look at the Sound Stages (at least a few of them) as being on the block for attraction space. Hell, you don't even have to remove one of the real sound stages to get a new ride in in that back section.

Remove SS33, which is considered an events building and isn't a real sound stage anyway. Build a similar building over at EU since the park will be right next to the convention center and then use the SS33 plot for a ride.


WDW relies more on nostalgia and has many original rides. Universal has pretty much nothing that is "theme park original" (non-reliant on IP) besides Poseidon's Fury and HRRR. Look at Universe of Energy and Great Movie Ride - parts stopped being produced and Disney decided to get rid of the rides. Or you could look at an older removed (and beloved Disney attraction) - Horizons. It was only open for just over 16 years old when it closed for good (and seasonal part of that time). Why did it close? The ride lost it's sponsor first of all. Disney then didn't want to pay for the maintanance on an attraction they felt was redundant with SSE also in the same park.

The length of a ride's life means nothing, especially when you have a land-locked park like USF is or are rich with land like WDW is.

I always throught this area could be utilized for something big....I realize that Rockit is in the way, but I really don't see it lasting another decade

 

[Nick]

I always throught this area could be utilized for something big....I realize that Rockit is in the way, but I really don't see it lasting another decade

Rockit isn't actually in the way too much. The queue could just be at the front there where the coaster track is and putting something back there. It's certainly an option in maybe 15-20 years. I don't think they will move to get rid of those unless it's a slam dunk idea or they've done everything to improve the park and they're just completely out of space.

 

[JungleSkip]

I agree 100%. I just believe replacing that much stuff within the 2023-2030 time period sounds far more like a billion+ remodel than

When I hear "billion dollar remodel", I think DCA, where large swathes of the park was closed at once to get a bunch of brand new things open at once. Outside of a KidZone redo, I don't see multiple things being closed at once at USF for any of the work I mentioned

 

[PerceptiveCoot]

That was the plot I was talking about in the post you quoted...

D'oh, sorry, thought you were talking about Kidzone.

 

[belloq87]

Since I think we’re all operating from slightly different opinions of where USF’s “weak” spots are, here are the areas that I feel meet the definition of that word for me (not necessarily in any order), and that I think should be under immediate consideration for redevelopment:

- KidZone
- Fear Factor
- Shrek 4D
- The Simpsons Ride (though not Springfield)

Fallon and F&F are both too new to be realistically in line for replacement already, but I certainly consider them on the park’s weaker end of the spectrum (and F&F is the single worst attraction in the park, I believe). And with Fallon, I feel it’s kind of linked to Minion Mayhem because they’re SO similar; ideally, one or the other should go (in Potter parlance, neither can live while the other survives!), but Fallon’s the newer investment, and Minion Mayhem’s the better attraction. It’s a catch-22.

I don’t care a ton for Transformers or Gringotts (I think better variations of those rides exist elsewhere), but I recognize their popularity and necessity to the park. They’re obviously safe for a long, long time, and rightly so.

 

[shiekra38]

OMG anyone else remember when Universal tweeted "It's never Ogre" and then promptly deleted it

 

[UNIrd]

We never even got new songs on Rip Ride Rockit after 10 years. They've done nothing to even keep even the screen attractions fresh except for removing the 3D off one. Not so much as even a holiday layover.

And isn't this year the 30th Anniversary? Woof.

 

[Nick]

We never even got new songs on Rip Ride Rockit after 10 years. They've done nothing to even keep even the screen attractions fresh except for removing the 3D off one. Not so much as even a holiday layover.

And isn't this year the 30th Anniversary? Woof.

Technically they've removed 3D from two attractions since F&F was slated to get it originally and has it in Hollywood.

 

[Happytycho]

When WDW does expansions it's usually the same way Universal does, namely replace an existing attraction with a new one. So space is a secondary requirement. It's all on an individual ride basis....Some people here think a park should tear nearly all their rides down and replace them every decade. Heh, most of those rides the super fans hate are liked by the real people in the general public. Well, basic economics tells you that a business isn't going to tear everything down and replace them, and then do it again a few years down the road. Sure USF will make a 'few' changes in the next few years, with emphasis on 'few'....not everything.

I've been the main proponent of a USF redo in this thread, so I can only assume your comment about hateful super fans is referring to me, despite the fact that I have neither claimed to be a super fan or hate all of the rides in question. In fact, as it relates relates to Mummy and MIB, and to a lesser extent Simpsons and Shrek, I totally agree that they are decent rides liked by the "real people in the general public", and I too will miss them once they're gone. Where my opinion diverges is that I can understand that as they age and approach 25 years, they get worn out and become harder to keep running, resulting in increased maintenance costs and a diminished rider experience. If Universal feels that the rides still provide the right mix of ride system, location, and IP, then they could certainly do a super heavy refurbishment, but I don't think that's the reality for most of the rides in USF. Rather, I see a future where newer, more exciting IP's implemented with technologically advanced ride systems provide an improvement over the (already good) current ride experiences, and help USF close the gap between it and IOA. As for Kidzone and FFL, I absolutely want to see them torn down . . . and immediately replaced with something better, of course.

Also, your claim about replacing rides "every decade" or every "few years" is a complete straw man. As I listed, most of the rides in question will be at least 20 years old by the time they close, if not more since they can't all get replaced immediately in 2023, so I'm not sure what point you were trying to make by highlighting the obvious fact that rides shouldn't be getting torn down within their first decade. If your goal was to refute my claims about replacing 20+ year old rides, then I'd suggest coming up with something more relevant to the topic of replacing 20 year old rides than comments about replacing much younger, 10 year old rides.

 

[Nico]

When I hear "billion dollar remodel", I think DCA, where large swathes of the park was closed at once to get a bunch of brand new things open at once. Outside of a KidZone redo, I don't see multiple things being closed at once at USF for any of the work I mentioned

Since I dropped the bomb in the thread and disappeared I’ll explain my thinking as well.

1. The mention of DCA was a poor example that led to some inaccurate comparisons. I was leaning more towards the multiple billion dollar expansions several Disney parks are currently undergoing internationally.

2. With IOA and and Epic Universe, this park will clearly become the weakest in the resort solely on the merits of the immersive lands they championed and have found success with. Diagon alone can’t hold down the fort.

3. As we talked about in the rest of the thread, they could simply redevelop Kidzone to Fear Factor if they wanted to keep it fresh (up to the Diagon/EU standards) and would help diversify and counterbalance the front of the park. (Before anyone jumps up, no I’m not suggesting that all of that land becomes one IP). Add in an upgrade to the entrance, some place making, and possible Shrek down the line and you’re easily at a billion.

4. We also have multiple examples of phased remodels (Epcot) where the whole park is undergoing a cohesive strategy in a multi-year plan. “Billion dollar expansion” has become marketing speak to Disney. It’s a way to grab headlines, when in reality, Universal could just keep chugging a long and never use the phrases “multi year reimagining” or “billion dollar remodel.” But that doesn’t mean that’s not exactly what their doing.

5. I’m not screaming to take down everything before EU. But will there a be a point where Universal looks at multi park purchases and checks to see if people are skipping Studios for the brand new park and IOA? Possibly.

 

[Mad Dog]

I've been the main proponent of a USF redo in this thread, so I can only assume your comment about hateful super fans is referring to me, despite the fact that I have neither claimed to be a super fan or hate all of the rides in question. In fact, as it relates relates to Mummy and MIB, and to a lesser extent Simpsons and Shrek, I totally agree that they are decent rides liked by the "real people in the general public", and I too will miss them once they're gone. Where my opinion diverges is that I can understand that as they age and approach 25 years, they get worn out and become harder to keep running, resulting in increased maintenance costs and a diminished rider experience. If Universal feels that the rides still provide the right mix of ride system, location, and IP, then they could certainly do a super heavy refurbishment, but I don't think that's the reality for most of the rides in USF. Rather, I see a future where newer, more exciting IP's implemented with technologically advanced ride systems provide an improvement over the (already good) current ride experiences, and help USF close the gap between it and IOA. As for Kidzone and FFL, I absolutely want to see them torn down . . . and immediately replaced with something better, of course.

Also, your claim about replacing rides "every decade" or every "few years" is a complete straw man. As I listed, most of the rides in question will be at least 20 years old by the time they close, if not more since they can't all get replaced immediately in 2023, so I'm not sure what point you were trying to make by highlighting the obvious fact that rides shouldn't be getting torn down within their first decade. If your goal was to refute my claims about replacing 20+ year old rides, then I'd suggest coming up with something more relevant to the topic of replacing 20 year old rides than comments about replacing much younger, 10 year old rides.

If I was referring to you I would have quoted you, which I did not do. I also did not use the word hateful when describing super fans. Super fans are fine, it's just sometimes they lose the overall economic impact of what they want. This 'replacing just about everything but Potter', is a subject which is brought up quite often on other threads, ie. when is Universal going to replace the outdated rides in Marvel Island, when is Universal going to replace the outdated rides in Toon Lagoon, when is Universal going to replace Lost Continent, when is Universal going to replace CITH and expand Seuss Landing, when is Universal going to replace Production Central, when is Universal going to get rid of their 3D rides. Not to count when is Universal going to get rid of KidZone and most of USF. There's just no way Universal could be expected to do all of that in the near future. Yes, maybe in 10, 20 or 30 years in baby steps one here and one there, but that's so far off it's not even viable to guess. And....that's essentially what I was referencing.The thread topic, after all, is short term, 'What does USF need the most before Epic Universe opens'. And, if you're paraphrasing my posts, no need to change my meaning by adding words that I did not use. That's typical internet social media BS falsifying. Why you are so paranoid thinking that my comments were directed at you, only you know. I rarely even read your posts anymore, unless you're replying to me. .

 

[shiekra38]

Rockit isn't actually in the way too much. The queue could just be at the front there where the coaster track is and putting something back there. It's certainly an option in maybe 15-20 years. I don't think they will move to get rid of those unless it's a slam dunk idea or they've done everything to improve the park and they're just completely out of space.

I agree..The cool thing about Universal's model is that their offerings are constantly in flux. So technically the park will look completely different every 15-20 years

 

[Mad Dog]

Bottom line on a lot of this, is that if Universal had not moved up the timeline for the new park (Epic), SNL would probably be opening in about 12 months and FF Live would have been torn down and a replacement expansion (probably Potter related) would have begun. That was all very imminent until being pulled right before it was to start. And we wouldn't even be discussing this thread topic. Unfortunately, there's only so much budget to go around at any given time. Budget money available is real world reality.

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

Bottom line on a lot of this, is that if Universal had not moved up the timeline for the new park (Epic), SNL would probably be opening in about 12 months and FF Live would have been torn down and a replacement expansion (probably Potter related) would have begun. That was all very imminent until being pulled right before it was to start. And we wouldn't even be discussing this thread topic. Unfortunately, there's only so much budget to go around at any given time.

I was just thinking the other day what things would look like at this resort business wise if SNW opened next summer, JP Coaster this year along with Bourne, they’d be a flourishment of openings. I still wish they did SNW next year at kidzone and go all out with Pokemon at EU in SNW’s spot

 

[Mad Dog]

I was just thinking the other day what things would look like at this resort business wise if SNW opened next summer, JP Coaster this year along with Bourne, they’d be a flourishment of openings. I still wish they did SNW next year at kidzone and go all out with Pokemon at EU in SNW’s spot

A big year attendance wise....probably. (but, if SNL went through as planned, the JP coaster might not be happening at this point in time)

 

[shiekra38]

Bottom line on a lot of this, is that if Universal had not moved up the timeline for the new park (Epic), SNL would probably be opening in about 12 months and FF Live would have been torn down and a replacement expansion (probably Potter related) would have begun. That was all very imminent until being pulled right before it was to start. And we wouldn't even be discussing this thread topic. Unfortunately, there's only so much budget to go around at any given time. Budget money available is real world reality.

I go back and forth...Sometimes I wish Universal hadn't secured the new land and all the EU stuff came to the original parks

But then I remember we're getting that AND new stuff in Studios/IOA anyway the wait will just be longer

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

I go back and forth...Sometimes I wish Universal hadn't secured the new land and all the EU stuff came to the original parks

But then I remember we're getting that AND new stuff in Studios/IOA anyway the wait will just be longer

Part of me thinks having UOR get SNW first in the US would’ve super profitable considering all the hotel bookings they can benefit off of that USH can’t. Obviously in this hypothetical they have Pokemon plans ready to go for EU, but having SNW open here first would’ve brought a ton of profit for them prior to EU opening. Imagine opening SNW, in the same park that has Diagon Alley. You can probably get some weeks worth vacation $$$ in the 2 years before EU with that and Hagrid’s still being a new addition.

And THEN, they open a 3rd park, really enforcing guests get their week long stay at Universal. Of course this is the dream Lol