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Hamilton (2020)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nick
  • Start date Start date Jan 31, 2020
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Nick

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  • Jul 6, 2020
  • #121
Jerroddragon said:
I'd love to watch it....too bad most shows on Broadway can only be seen there.

Hoping after this being such a huge hit we see more musical's filmed and put on services.

I know some producer is scared people won't see the shows....well I'm already not seeing many shows I would enjoy and tell everyone about and buy the soundtrack. So here is hoping (also I know i could listen to the soundtrack but I like watching the play first to get full context over songs)
Click to expand...
I think Disney will take note of this for sure and will start taping their musicals more before the end of the show's run. It's a shame that Frozen isn't coming back to Broadway and they'll never be able to film it. Also, The Lion King is a Broadway Dinosaur. The show has been around for what seems like forever. Disney could probably put it on Disney+ and still sell out show because that's how beloved it is.

Although if you're looking for a reason why Broadway doesn't get filmed more often, it's because of the cost and the fear of will it make money? Of course, Hamilton only cost $12M, which is chump change to Disney. If they want to, they could their studio arm could throw some of that at filming these easily.
 
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Clive

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  • Jul 6, 2020
  • #122
Nick said:
I think Disney will take note of this for sure and will start taping their musicals more before the end of the show's run. It's a shame that Frozen isn't coming back to Broadway and they'll never be able to film it. Also, The Lion King is a Broadway Dinosaur. The show has been around for what seems like forever. Disney could probably put it on Disney+ and still sell out show because that's how beloved it is.

Although if you're looking for a reason why Broadway doesn't get filmed more often, it's because of the cost and the fear of will it make money? Of course, Hamilton only cost $12M, which is chump change to Disney. If they want to, they could their studio arm could throw some of that at filming these easily.
Click to expand...

Phantom of the Opera still sells out its Broadway theater for three decades+ despite an awful** cinematic adaptation and an excellent 25th anniversary theatrical filming.

**edited to reflect my feelings on the Schumacher adaptation, which by all accounts is pretty awful
 
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Nick

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  • Jul 6, 2020
  • #123
Clive said:
Phantom of the Opera still sells out its Broadway theater for three decades+ despite an excellent cinematic adaption and 25th anniversary theatrical filming.
Click to expand...
And so will Hamilton after Broadway reopens. It's nice to have this on-demand, but it's still not the same as being in the room where it happens.
 
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Jerroddragon

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  • Jul 6, 2020
  • #124
Nick said:
I think Disney will take note of this for sure and will start taping their musicals more before the end of the show's run. It's a shame that Frozen isn't coming back to Broadway and they'll never be able to film it. Also, The Lion King is a Broadway Dinosaur. The show has been around for what seems like forever. Disney could probably put it on Disney+ and still sell out show because that's how beloved it is.

Although if you're looking for a reason why Broadway doesn't get filmed more often, it's because of the cost and the fear of will it make money? Of course, Hamilton only cost $12M, which is chump change to Disney. If they want to, they could their studio arm could throw some of that at filming these easily.
Click to expand...
I would love Disney to film the hunchback of notre dame musical which is what the animated film should have been. Here is hoping that they can start filming more shows and putting them on their services.
Like even stuff like old WOC and Fantasmic 1.0....like why not? These shows are gone and you can see them free on Youtube anyway why not just have some higher production values and have something else to show everyone. Heck I think if they didn't have this even a Video of the Fireworks from the parks would have gotten Millions of views because people can't see these shows right now
 
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Nick

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  • Jul 6, 2020
  • #125
Jerroddragon said:
I would love Disney to film the hunchback of notre dame musical which is what the animated film should have been. Here is hoping that they can start filming more shows and putting them on their services.
Like even stuff like old WOC and Fantasmic 1.0....like why not? These shows are gone and you can see them free on Youtube anyway why not just have some higher production values and have something else to show everyone. Heck I think if they didn't have this even a Video of the Fireworks from the parks would have gotten Millions of views because people can't see these shows right now
Click to expand...
The DisneyParks YouTube account has a lot of this type of content in showing fireworks shows and such. I suspect Disney+ probably thinks it’s below them to simply put fireworks shows on the service when the parks are already covering this, especially when the market for that type of content is so niche.
 
GA-MBIT

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  • #126
I don't know how well a full movie could work. The stage gives a lot more diegetic/creative freedom when it comes to time skips, location changes, the age of certain characters, or even just general performance quirks. I don't know how you'd transition between most of the songs without dragging the pace down like RENT's adaptation or without getting so extremely stylized that it just throws the corniness to 1000%. I'm sure it's possible, but I just don't trust it to be done right given the poor track record with musical-to-movie adaptations in the past.
 
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Nick

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  • #127
GA-MBIT said:
I don't know how well a full movie could work. The stage gives a lot more diegetic/creative freedom when it comes to time skips, location changes, the age of certain characters, or even just general performance quirks. I don't know how you'd transition between most of the songs without dragging the pace down like RENT's adaptation or without getting so extremely stylized that it just throws the corniness to 1000%. I'm sure it's possible, but I just don't trust it to be done right given the poor track record with musical-to-movie adaptations in the past.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this show starts as early as 1755 in the Caribbean, quickly jumps to 1776, he meets and marries Eliza in 1780, Burr beats Phillip Schuyler for the Senate seat in 1791, Phillip Hamilton dies in a duel in 1801 and Alexander dies in a duel in 1804.

I know movies can time hope and I’m sure a movie could be made, but I question if it would be any good. As you’re saying, time jumps work way better on Broadway.
 
Clive

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  • #128
Nick said:
Yeah, this show starts as early as 1755 in the Caribbean, quickly jumps to 1776, he meets and marries Eliza in 1780, Burr beats Phillip Schuyler for the Senate seat in 1791, Phillip Hamilton dies in a duel in 1801 and Alexander dies in a duel in 1804.

I know movies can time hope and I’m sure a movie could be made, but I question if it would be any good. As you’re saying, time jumps work way better on Broadway.
Click to expand...

I feel like they'd easily keep the operatic angle of the musical (i.e. minimal new dialogue) but would maybe lose something in the inevitable non-double casting of LaFayette/Jefferson, Mulligan/Madison, Lawrence/Phillip, Peggy/Reynolds. I guess you could actually keep the double casting for everyone except Phillip, but...
 
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  • #129
Clive said:
I feel like they'd easily keep the operatic angle of the musical (i.e. minimal new dialogue) but would maybe lose something in the inevitable non-double casting of LaFayette/Jefferson, Mulligan/Madison, Lawrence/Phillip, Peggy/Reynolds. I guess you could actually keep the double casting for everyone except Phillip, but...
Click to expand...
Yeah, losing the doubles I’m less concerned about. It would have to stay operatic, imo, but the types of sets they would use would be what would actually be the weirdest part for me. If your using 1700/1800’s sets and rapping, it would feel really weird imo. Set design on the stage show is so simplistic and yet it looks and works incredibly.

Also, I have an idea of how you would do the transition from Helpless to Satisfied, but nothing you do on screen could ever touch what they have choreographed for the stage version of that song.
 
belloq87

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  • Jul 6, 2020
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I think the first hour would be, essentially, unfilmable in any conventional cinematic fashion (i.e. with sets and locales that are period-correct). I think the constant change of location and year (numerous times even within single songs) would give it the feel of a super extended montage sequence, like a viewer is never really able to settle in. You can get away with that on the stage, not in a movie (I don't think, anyway).

And if you're not going to do it with realistic sets/locations, then why even bother? Trying to go for some middle ground between the filmed stage performance and an "actual" movie would likely not satisfy anybody.

It's a catch-22.
 
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Nick

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  • Jul 7, 2020
  • #131
belloq87 said:
I think the first hour would be, essentially, unfilmable in any conventional cinematic fashion (i.e. with sets and locales that are period-correct). I think the constant change of location and year (numerous times even within single songs) would give it the feel of a super extended montage sequence, like a viewer is never really able to settle in. You can get away with that on the stage, not in a movie (I don't think, anyway).

And if you're not going to do it with realistic sets/locations, then why even bother? Trying to go for some middle ground between the filmed stage performance and an "actual" movie would likely not satisfy anybody.

It's a catch-22.
Click to expand...
Yup.

On-Stage it works, but the first act would come off as one long song with Incredible pacing and location issues.

The second act is definitely filmable - it’s much more traditional and has far more room for you to breathe.
 
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Cwoolboy

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  • Jul 7, 2020
  • #132
Seen it twice, never got to see it live. Amazing, incredible show. Definitely have questions about how they would turn it into a movie. I'm fine if this is the only movie we get out of it. Reading Ron Chernow's bio of Hamilton atm, which was an influence on Mann. Great stuff so far.
 
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Legacy

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  • Jul 7, 2020
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There are so many failed attempts at making a stage musical into a movie over the last decade or so, and those are more traditional shows (Les Mis, Phantom, Into the Woods, Mama Mia, Rent, The Producers). The more esoteric ones fail even harder (Cats, Last 5 Years). Chicago worked, but it sat in a perfect middle ground of a film-friendly story with a clever character motivation that made the corniness of theater make perfect sense.

Classic musicals (and the associated movies) have a much slower pace which lets the story breath after a song. There’s a pause, narratively and in presentation, because the song essentially ends the scene. They talk building to a song, they sing, the scene ends, and there’s a slow fade (or lighting change) with an interlude, and the cycle repeats. Original movie musicals, like Anna and the Apocalypse and Disney films, build that pacing into their scripts. That’s why they work.

Modern musicals don’t do that. They’re written without as much (if any) breathing room. There’re more songs, packed closer together, with little if any talking in between. Songs can hit at the beginning or middle of scenes, with dialogue covering transitions between scenes. It means adapting the screenplay to add pauses that hinder the original pace (making things feel slow—like Mama Mia), or ignoring that need for breath and making the film feel muddled and unorganized (like Les Mis).

They can film any musical, however they want, but some shows by their very structure mean they can’t be good “movies” and need to remain “on stage.” Hamilton is one of them.
 
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GA-MBIT

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The 'extended montage' feel is a really bad issue with RENT that would absolutely plague Hamilton if they didn't go super abstract with it, which they wouldn't.

Movies are "Show, don't tell", so when a musical is built on a very rigid and sturdy base that is pretty much exclusively "Tell, don't show", you can imagine it'll be hard to transition.
 
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Nick

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  • Jul 7, 2020
  • #135
GA-MBIT said:
The 'extended montage' feel is a really bad issue with RENT that would absolutely plague Hamilton if they didn't go super abstract with it, which they wouldn't.

Movies are "Show, don't tell", so when a musical is built on a very rigid and sturdy base that is pretty much exclusively "Tell, don't show", you can imagine it'll be hard to transition.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this show tells you from the opening minutes the cliff notes version of literally everything you are about to see, including making the bold choice to make the audience aware from the get go that Aaron Burr did a bad thing to the title character.
 
GA-MBIT

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  • Jul 7, 2020
  • #136
Nick said:
Yeah, this show tells you from the opening minutes the cliff notes version of literally everything you are about to see, including making the bold choice to make the audience aware from the get go that Aaron Burr did a bad thing to the title character.
Click to expand...
It's been so long since I first listened to the show that I kinda forgot how big that moment is, but yeah. Hamilton really does just pull a Blood Brothers and spoils the big reveal within the opening number. They immediately tell you that Burr shoots (and presumably kills) Hamilton. The journey to get to that big spoiler-y ending is what they leave as a mystery.

Alexander also doesn't sing much in his titular song. It's mostly the supporting characters and ensemble setting the mood, greek choir style. They leave songs like "My Shot" and "Hurricane" to actually give Hamilton's character life beyond the backstory monologue the show opens with.

I really do love this show. It's structured extremely well imo. It knows exactly when to throw information at you to make sure you keep up without it being dull or tiring. I just adore hearing motifs from other songs make it into later pieces, and how the opening number has the "We fought with him/ died for him/loved him" and each phrase works for each of the characters singing them without it feeling like a stretch or forced at all. There are so many moments like that here.

I don't know if we already have one or not, but a general Musical thread could be fun.
 
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Clive

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Nick said:
Yeah, this show tells you from the opening minutes the cliff notes version of literally everything you are about to see, including making the bold choice to make the audience aware from the get go that Aaron Burr did a bad thing to the title character.
Click to expand...

In fairness, there's a tradition of doing just this in cinema, too - think Sunset Boulevard. Sometimes it's the journey, not the destination, and I think the choice works in the sense that this is literal adapted history we're staging.
 
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In the terms of if Hamilton get's the adaptation treatment..Honestly--I could see a two to maybe three part mini-series, that takes place within Act 1 (for Part 1), and Act 2 (Part's 2/3). There is content that they could do very well in Act 2 better on a longer-form front, then I'd argue a film could. And it could also allow Lin and the crew involved, to include more that was from The Park version, the Demo's, and adding more chances for a flow of acting.

Not every Broadway show need's a film adaptation. And Hamilton--doesn't need a film adaptation.
 
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Nick

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  • #139
Clive said:
In fairness, there's a tradition of doing just this in cinema, too - think Sunset Boulevard. Sometimes it's the journey, not the destination, and I think the choice works in the sense that this is literal adapted history we're staging.
Click to expand...
Oh I love it, i'm just acknowledging that it was a risky move. If you're going to give away the ending, you better be damn good to make people want to care to continue watching and they succeeded at that.

GA-MBIT said:
It's been so long since I first listened to the show that I kinda forgot how big that moment is, but yeah. Hamilton really does just pull a Blood Brothers and spoils the big reveal within the opening number. They immediately tell you that Burr shoots (and presumably kills) Hamilton. The journey to get to that big spoiler-y ending is what they leave as a mystery.

Alexander also doesn't sing much in his titular song. It's mostly the supporting characters and ensemble setting the mood, greek choir style. They leave songs like "My Shot" and "Hurricane" to actually give Hamilton's character life beyond the backstory monologue the show opens with.

I really do love this show. It's structured extremely well imo. It knows exactly when to throw information at you to make sure you keep up without it being dull or tiring. I just adore hearing motifs from other songs make it into later pieces, and how the opening number has the "We fought with him/ died for him/loved him" and each phrase works for each of the characters singing them without it feeling like a stretch or forced at all. There are so many moments like that here.

I don't know if we already have one or not, but a general Musical thread could be fun.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's definitely the journey.

You guys may have heard Lin tell the story, but he says he wrote Hamilton because he connected with him as an Immigrant and on and on. But the characteristic that I think intrinsically ties both people together is their relentless pursuit to keep writing "non-stop" and also, I think they share a bit of never being quite satisfied. There's always work to be done. My favorite fact about Hamilton is that there is 20,520 words in the show - or 144 word per minute average. If this show was sung at the normal Broadway pace, the show would be in the 4-6 hour range and if it was a straight play, it would be a whopping 10-12 hours.

wegotthiscovered.com

Hamilton's Word-Per-Minute Average Is Ridiculously High

Perhaps unsurprisingly, Hamilton, the smash hit Broadway play that's now on Disney Plus, has a ridiculous high word-per-minute average.
wegotthiscovered.com wegotthiscovered.com

And you are more than welcome to create a Musical thread if you'd like!

AlexanderMBush said:
In the terms of if Hamilton get's the adaptation treatment..Honestly--I could see a two to maybe three part mini-series, that takes place within Act 1 (for Part 1), and Act 2 (Part's 2/3). There is content that they could do very well in Act 2 better on a longer-form front, then I'd argue a film could. And it could also allow Lin and the crew involved, to include more that was from The Park version, the Demo's, and adding more chances for a flow of acting.

Not every Broadway show need's a film adaptation. And Hamilton--doesn't need a film adaptation.
Click to expand...
Nothing NEEDS a film adaptation. But if Disney paid $75M for the stage version, how much is someone gonna pay for a movie musical? Lin wants that money.
 
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Viator

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  • Jul 7, 2020
  • #140
Nick said:
Nothing NEEDS a film adaptation. But if Disney paid $75M for the stage version, how much is someone gonna pay for a movie musical? Lin wants that money.
Click to expand...

Honestly--it's kind of the reason why I think Ham may go for the television circuit as opposed to film.

If they're going to stretch it, and to get all they can--having Lin involved directly on an adaptation for television will allow them to stretch out the contents of the Broadway musical, to add more elements from past iterations of Hamilton. And, to add new elements, new songs and chances for dialogue to shine the light's of how these people lived during the period of the mid/late 1700's to 1804.
 
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