Hamilton (2020)

[Jerroddragon]

There really is no hero or villain in this story. Just through watching the musical, Hamilton is absolutely no saint and he and Burr were constantly at each other’s throats, until it literally killed one of them.

I don’t know if history will be kind for this show or not though. There’s the whole slavery issue, which barely gets addressed in the musical and with a bunch of black guys playing those characters, it’s been controversial from the start.

I have yet to meet a person who didn't at least like it....but I live in California so maybe it's just people here enjoying it.

Burr to me seems like a villain if he was really all business and no taking sides, seems like a man just trying to profit from which ever side he could over making a stand for what he at least feels is right.

 

[Legacy]

I have yet to meet a person who didn't at least like it....but I live in California so maybe it's just people here enjoying it.

Burr to me seems like a villain if he was really all business and no taking sides, seems like a man just trying to profit from which ever side he could over making a stand for what he at least feels is right.

Burr “seems like a villain” because he’s presented as the villain. He literally says “I’m the villain in your history books.” But his opportunism isn’t technically a bad thing. He is a politician, with his own ambitions—just like Hamilton. The difference is that Hamilton is willing to burn down every relationship he built to accomplish his political goals (which centralized federal power into the hands of the wealthy elites), while Burr is far less willing to be so self-destructive. But, the show is called Hamilton, so recklessness is commendable here.

In dramatizing the show, the only thing we’re told about Burr is that he never took a side. But he does take sides. He supports the revolution throughout. He supports the constitution throughout. He and Hamilton keep circling each other because Burr is just as effective a politician as Hamilton is.

 

[Disneyhead]

From the play, all the men except for Washington seemed a bit villainous. Although I do think it was a bit too kind to Jefferson. And I am a big Jefferson fan. But he was no Saint.

 

[Nick]

Burr “seems like a villain” because he’s presented as the villain. He literally says “I’m the villain in your history books.” But his opportunism isn’t technically a bad thing. He is a politician, with his own ambitions—just like Hamilton. The difference is that Hamilton is willing to burn down every relationship he built to accomplish his political goals (which centralized federal power into the hands of the wealthy elites), while Burr is far less willing to be so self-destructive. But, the show is called Hamilton, so recklessness is commendable here.

In dramatizing the show, the only thing we’re told about Burr is that he never took a side. But he does take sides. He supports the revolution throughout. He supports the constitution throughout. He and Hamilton keep circling each other because Burr is just as effective a politician as Hamilton is.

Yes, the musical shows things from Hamilton’s POV more or less... because the show is primarily about Hamilton-Burr’s fued and an emphasis on how important the Schuyler sisters were during their time. It does also in the end try to make you feel sympathetic for Hamilton despite all the wrong he’s done. He’s (indirectly) responsible for his son’s death and had an extramarital affair (and outed himself to clear his name). It’s not told in the story, but his oldest daughter - Angelica - formed a mental disorder at 17 when her brother Phillip died. She lived until 72, but she never grew mentally and kept living like her brother and father were alive for the rest of her life.

I suggest people actually do some deeper research into who these people actually were if it got you interested about the history. I’ve done a lot. Here’s an article I always find ironic. The same general group of people that love Hamilton probably would’ve supported Burr.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/03/30/liberals-love-alexander-hamilton-but-aaron-burr-was-a-real-progressive-hero/

 

[Clive]

From the play, all the men except for Washington seemed a bit villainous. Although I do think it was a bit too kind to Jefferson. And I am a big Jefferson fan. But he was no Saint.

I'd encourage you to check out the demo for Cabinet Battle 3, a song cut from the show. The specter of slavery sort of dissipates in Act 2, to the show's detriment, in my opinion, but this track was meant to reemphasize its place in the new nation - and, while it definitely gives Hamilton a little too much credit when his positions in reality were more qualified, it also casts Jefferson and Washington both in a more damning light.

 

[viking_wizard_eyes]

Okay, so . . . my wife and I watched this earlier today, and I’m not gonna lie — I really don’t get it. How and why is this thing so popular? I found it exhausting and obscenely corny. It reminded me of this 7th grade assembly we had where some drug prevention people came to our school and performed a bunch of raps about saying no to drugs and alcohol, which to this day is one of the most cringeworthy things I’ve ever witnessed. Lots of similar vibes coming from this lol, it just felt so embarrassing and uncomfortable, almost every second of it.

Admittedly, musical theater isn’t my cup of tea, and maybe it’s better experienced live, but yeah, I just . . . what am I missing here?

 

[Nick]

With the extremely high amount of people I’ve seen talking about watching this this weekend, I have to think at $7/subscription and very likely many new subs just to watch this, I think moving it to Disney+ was the smart move.

I highly doubt this would’ve done all that big of box office as only theater people would’ve went to see it. But being on D+, it made a huge pop this weekend as it had a theatrical ad campaign, new subs for people who just wanted to watch Hamilton, and the added bonus of more people watching it this weekend than probably would’ve gone throughout an entire theatrical run because of existing subs watching it who may not have ever considered going to see it in theaters.

Okay, so . . . my wife and I watched this earlier today, and I’m not gonna lie — I really don’t get it. How and why is this thing so popular? I found it exhausting and obscenely corny. It reminded me of this 7th grade assembly we had where some drug prevention people came to our school and performed a bunch of raps about saying no to drugs and alcohol, which to this day is one of the most cringeworthy things I’ve ever witnessed. Lots of similar vibes coming from this lol, it just felt so embarrassing and uncomfortable, almost every second of it.

Admittedly, musical theater isn’t my cup of tea, and maybe it’s better experienced live, but yeah, I just . . . what am I missing here?

Yeah, if this is corny to you, then I’d hate for you to meet literally every other show ever to make it to broadway.

Like you said, musical theater isn’t your cup of tea.

 

[viking_wizard_eyes]

Yeah, if this is corny to you, then I’d hate for you to meet literally every other show ever to make it to broadway.

Like you said, musical theater isn’t your cup of tea.

Yeah, it’s probably just as simple as that, I guess. Idk, I was fully expecting to at least enjoy it considering the universal acclaim, but man did we have to tough it out. And also, I love plenty of movie musicals, like Minnelli/Hawks and the MGM classics, and also the Busby Berkley precode stuff. I’d probably put Singing in the Rain in my personal top 25. But I think it’s specifically musical theater that isn’t my thing.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Okay, so . . . my wife and I watched this earlier today, and I’m not gonna lie — I really don’t get it. How and why is this thing so popular? I found it exhausting and obscenely corny. It reminded me of this 7th grade assembly we had where some drug prevention people came to our school and performed a bunch of raps about saying no to drugs and alcohol, which to this day is one of the most cringeworthy things I’ve ever witnessed. Lots of similar vibes coming from this lol, it just felt so embarrassing and uncomfortable, almost every second of it.

Admittedly, musical theater isn’t my cup of tea, and maybe it’s better experienced live, but yeah, I just . . . what am I missing here?

It's got a solid story and good music.....Welcome to Musicals. haha

 

[Legacy]

It’s definitely a “modern” musical and, as such, doesn’t carry any traditional “musical” trappings. Modern shows have a different pace and rhythm to them compared to the classics, and stage shows are very different from movie musicals in general.

If you’re not into (or familiar with) the trappings of “modern” Broadway (predominantly static sets, self-aware “hipness,” focusing on genres for their melodies), then I can definitely understand why you wouldn’t be into Hamilton.

 

[viking_wizard_eyes]

It’s definitely a “modern” musical and, as such, doesn’t carry any traditional “musical” trappings. Modern shows have a different pace and rhythm to them compared to the classics, and stage shows are very different from movie musicals in general.

If you’re not into (or familiar with) the trappings of “modern” Broadway (predominantly static sets, self-aware “hipness,” focusing on genres for their melodies), then I can definitely understand why you wouldn’t be into Hamilton.

Definitely a style thing as opposed to form. I love plenty of movie musicals, but I agree, stage musicals have a lot of fundamental differences, some of which I find particularly grating. The whole “back-of-the-room” performance style really makes my skin crawl. And idk, this is gonna make me sound like a huge jerk but the show reminded me way too much of Lin-Manuel Miranda’s public persona, which is to say cloying and desperate to be liked and so relentlessly sincere that it begins to feel disingenuous and gross.

That said, he’s clearly some kind of creative genius because the overall scope of this thing is pretty overwhelming when you consider all the individual parts, and the subversive aspects of the casting and commentary were interesting. It’s impressive as an object, no doubt. And I really shouldn’t judge it based on this version. It’s clearly something that’s meant to be experienced live.Thing is, I’d never spend hundreds of dollars on something in which I only had a vague, passing interest. So it was my only shot. (Shot!)

 

[Nick]

It’s definitely a “modern” musical and, as such, doesn’t carry any traditional “musical” trappings. Modern shows have a different pace and rhythm to them compared to the classics, and stage shows are very different from movie musicals in general.

If you’re not into (or familiar with) the trappings of “modern” Broadway (predominantly static sets, self-aware “hipness,” focusing on genres for their melodies), then I can definitely understand why you wouldn’t be into Hamilton.

Yeah, I find Hamilton to be fairly polarizing in the reception from my Facebook feed. People seem to either love it or call it overrated.

Predictably, the Broadway fans love it, but people who aren’t as into musicals seem much more prone to call it overrated, overhyped, etc, which I can totally get if you don’t know what you’re in for.

Personally, I’m at intermission on my third watch, so that tells you how I feel I’m currently watching it with subtitles on this time, which I think I’d recommend all people do if you plan on watching it again.

 

[Disneyhead]

Here is my hot take on "Hamilton". I like it a lot, but I still enjoy "In The Heights" more. "Hamilton" is more unique because of the casting and historical setting, but "In The Heights" just feels more "real" to me. It's more fun. And the characters are more human and less a historical caricature. "Hamilton" is a brilliant production full of mostly unlikable characters. "In The Heights" is full of likable characters who you can't help but root for.

 

[Nick]

Here is my hot take on "Hamilton". I like it a lot, but I still enjoy "In The Heights" more. "Hamilton" is more unique because of the casting and historical setting, but "In The Heights" just feels more "real" to me. It's more fun. And the characters are more human and less a historical caricature. "Hamilton" is a brilliant production full of mostly unlikable characters. "In The Heights" is full of likable characters who you can't help but root for.

Both are great and I wouldn’t necessarily call it a hot take to say ITH is better. It’s like if Ben Platt writes and stars in another show that is a cultural phenomenon. That doesn’t mean Dear Even Hanson isn’t great. It just came first.

I’m glad In The Heights finally got a movie and that Anthony Ramos is Usnavi. Too bad we have to wait until next year now.
——————————
Here’s the OBC reunion done by ESPN’s The Undefeated (I noticed tonight it was removed from Disney+):

Watch: ‘The Undefeated Presents: ‘Hamilton’ In-Depth’ with Kelley Carter

Visit the post for more.

theundefeated.com

 

[Scott W.]

The Academy Says the Hamilton Movie Won’t Be Eligible at Next Year’s Oscars

Despite what the Academy says, Disney reportedly plans to submit the project for the Oscars and various guild awards.

www.vulture.com

Also, 2 days on and 'You'll Be Back' is still playing on repeat in my head.

 

[Nick]

The Academy Says the Hamilton Movie Won’t Be Eligible at Next Year’s Oscars

Despite what the Academy says, Disney reportedly plans to submit the project for the Oscars and various guild awards.

www.vulture.com

Also, 2 days on and 'You'll Be Back' is still playing on repeat in my head.

I was wondering about that as I read that it's the best reviewed "film" so far this year, but with it just being the stage show, I sort of assumed not.

After i've watched this version though, I was really wondering how possible it would be to do an actual film version of Hamilton and for it to actually be good. The whole first act is one giant operatic act, with very little interruption aside from King George's parts. I'm trying to imagine how you would film a real movie based on this and I mean, maybe Thomas Kail could figure out a cool way to do it (as i'd imagine he'd be directing a Hamilton movie), but the locations change so fast in this show I just don't see how you do it without it truly becoming corny (as some people have been calling the stage version this weekend).

I think this show is magic for the stage. The corny-ness works in part because broadway is corny as hell anyway and everyone accepts that. For a movie though, I just don't see how it works.

 

[Scott W.]

I was wondering about that as I read that it's the best reviewed "film" so far this year, but with it just being the stage show, I sort of assumed not.

After i've watched this version though, I was really wondering how possible it would be to do an actual film version of Hamilton and for it to actually be good. The whole first act is one giant operatic act, with very little interruption aside from King George's parts. I'm trying to imagine how you would film a real movie based on this and I mean, maybe Thomas Kail could figure out a cool way to do it (as i'd imagine he'd be directing a Hamilton movie), but the locations change so fast in this show I just don't see how you do it without it truly becoming corny (as some people have been calling the stage version this weekend).

I think this show is magic for the stage. The corny-ness works in part because broadway is corny as hell anyway and everyone accepts that. For a movie though, I just don't see how it works.

I'm the same. I just don't see a way in which a movie is going to be better than what was just released. It's going to be a cash grab pure and simple.

There have been plenty of shows that have had huge pop culture reference but this is the first one in a long time and you mix that with the reach of Apple Music, Spotify and YouTube and people are going to be so connected to this version that it's going to be difficult to create a movie version that will be it's own thing but also top this.

 

[belloq87]

So, I watched this (having listened to the album a couple years ago), and seeing the actual performances and staging and choreography definitely improved my view of the work, which was rather on the cool side after only listening to the music, in a pretty pronounced way. I think it's pretty terrific musical theater that maybe errs a bit too much towards comedy than it really needs to, but that definitely makes it more entertaining than a straighter, more dry presentation of these people might have been.

I do still have some serious differences of opinion in terms of how the show chooses to present some of these men (just as an example, Jefferson -- though perhaps the most entertaining character in the entire production -- feels wildly far removed from the actual person based on pretty much everything that's been written about his temperament and personality), but as a production that depicts complex men during the nation's formative years, I found it agreeably rousing.

But on the "Founding Fathers Musicals" front, I'll still give the edge to 1776!

 

[Nick]

I'm the same. I just don't see a way in which a movie is going to be better than what was just released. It's going to be a cash grab pure and simple.

There have been plenty of shows that have had huge pop culture reference but this is the first one in a long time and you mix that with the reach of Apple Music, Spotify and YouTube and people are going to be so connected to this version that it's going to be difficult to create a movie version that will be it's own thing but also top this.

I think at this point, you now have to wait probably 10-15 years for a movie to be successful with this just being released on Disney+. In that amount of time, I can totally picture Anthony Ramos portraying Hamilton on screen in the same way he's portraying Lin's other on-stage character, Usnavi, from In The Heights.

But I also feel like Hamilton is a weird musical that may suffer with age due to the history of the founding fathers being slave traders and how Lin doesn't really address it much in the musical. So they may want to cash in quick.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Here is my hot take on "Hamilton". I like it a lot, but I still enjoy "In The Heights" more. "Hamilton" is more unique because of the casting and historical setting, but "In The Heights" just feels more "real" to me. It's more fun. And the characters are more human and less a historical caricature. "Hamilton" is a brilliant production full of mostly unlikable characters. "In The Heights" is full of likable characters who you can't help but root for.

I'd love to watch it....too bad most shows on Broadway can only be seen there.

Hoping after this being such a huge hit we see more musical's filmed and put on services.

I know some producer is scared people won't see the shows....well I'm already not seeing many shows I would enjoy and tell everyone about and buy the soundtrack. So here is hoping (also I know i could listen to the soundtrack but I like watching the play first to get full context over songs)