The Old KidZone Thread

[JungleSkip]

well that's why they don't sport the attendance numbers that Disney does.

For a family of four (a mom, dad, 6" child and an >54" child) what would be a better value? Going to a park where half the family rides big rides while the other half sits and waits or splits up entirely to do their own thing? Or going to a park where they can all ride the big name attractions together? Universal may be doing ok now, but they're missing the key nuclear family demographic that makes up the largest part of the theme park vacation market.

This.

Yes, Universal is doing great. But they could do significantly better for themselves by adding 3-4 rides in each park that don't throw you all over the place for 4 minutes.

 

[Starwarsfan13]

well that's why they don't sport the attendance numbers that Disney does.

For a family of four (a mom, dad, 6" child and an >54" child) what would be a better value? Going to a park where half the family rides big rides while the other half sits and waits or splits up entirely to do their own thing? Or going to a park where they can all ride the big name attractions together? Universal may be doing ok now, but they're missing the key nuclear family demographic that makes up the largest part of the theme park vacation market.

Nope, Disney get's it's massive numbers from 4 things.
1. Rite of passage families- Those who go because it's the "American" thing to do once.
2. Groups-School Groups, Foreign Groups, Cheer Groups etc.
3. Foreigners in general- South America, Europe etc.
4. It's Disney- People will come no matter what.

Take those out and Disney won't pull numbers any larger then Magic Mountain.

 

[JungleSkip]

Nope, Disney get's it's massive numbers from 3 things.
1. Rite of passage families- Those who go because it's the "American" thing to do once.
2. Groups-School Groups, Foreign Groups, Cheer Groups etc.
3. Foreigners in general- South America, Europe etc.

Take those out and Disney won't pull numbers any larger then Magic Mountain.

Not really man. You're REALLY undervaluing the fact that people know basically everyone can do everything at Disney.

 

[Andy]

I rode all of them when I was 3.

And another piece of the puzzle falls into place

 

[Starwarsfan13]

Not really man. You're REALLY undervaluing the fact that people know basically everyone can do everything at Disney.

People think that cause it's Disney. Which solely appeals to the under 8 crowd in every faucet of the company. (Except ESPN.)

 

[JungleSkip]

And another piece of the puzzle falls into place

I was a special child.

Jaws was the only one to freak me out.

People think that cause it's Disney. Which solely appeals to the under 8 crowd in every faucet of the company. (Except ESPN.)

I don't mean this as offense, but if that's why you think Disney is popular you're very misguided.

 

[jtsalien]

Universal will never be the best family resort in the world (Disneyland and Disney World). They will never be the best thrill park in the country (Cedar Point, Six Flags Magic Mountain). They will never be the best value resort in the country (This is Orlando ). However, they are ridiculously close to being the most complete resort in the world. Being more complete, means attracting more guests, then KEEPING more of them on property. More time on property means more money spent.

Not appealing to the largest number of consumers traveling to Orlando is a completely asinine business plan and Comcast knows that.

 

[Starwarsfan13]

I was a special child.

Jaws was the only one to freak me out.



I don't mean this as offense, but if that's why you think Disney is popular you're very misguided.

Non taken, though tell me why you believe that Disney is popular?

 

[IzzyB]

I really wouldn't put anyone under 5 on those rides ether...

My daughter is 2 and has been on ET and loved it. My son (also 2 - twins) went on disaster with me. They almost did not let him on. He does not sit up on his own, but he can sit next to me with me holding him. Well the lady made a comment and I said, let me try. Well he sat up the straightest I have ever seen him sit up. I think he knew what was going on and really wanted to go on. He had a blast. But my kids are not the norm, they go to Theme parks all the time and very little frightens them. Twister and Posiden Fury are the only things that ever has scared them.

I feel even the family friendly rides sometimes have too many restrictions for an entire family to go on them vs. Disney who seems to build their rides to allow things like lap sitting, so younger children can ride them if they want to.

Man, Jaws closed before my kids could go on it, I would have LOVED to see my daughter go on that.

Universal will never be the best family resort in the world (Disneyland and Disney World). They will never be the best thrill park in the country (Cedar Point, Six Flags Magic Mountain). They will never be the best value resort in the country (This is Orlando ). However, they are ridiculously close to being the most complete resort in the world. Being more complete, means attracting more guests, then KEEPING more of them on property. More time on property means more money spent.

Not appealing to the largest number of consumers traveling to Orlando is a completely asinine business plan and Comcast knows that.

I couldn't agree more with this statement.

I think people freak out when people talk about family rides because they don't want a bunch of lame roller coasters and dark rides to replace their cool tech rides. But that is not what Uni is going to do, nor is it what we are saying they should do. We are saying they should take spaces like Kidzone and use that space for family rides. Or when they do something in JP, add a family ride. These rides can have cool tech and effects, but have less motion to them. So the whole family can enjoy them from the 1 year old that is the youngest member of the family to the 80 year old grandparent. So those families that have reunions down here or just travel with their extended family can enjoy the park. So those families with multiple kids in different ages can enjoy the park more than they can now.

 

[TylerDurden]

Nope, Disney get's it's massive numbers from 4 things.
1. Rite of passage families- Those who go because it's the "American" thing to do once.
2. Groups-School Groups, Foreign Groups, Cheer Groups etc.
3. Foreigners in general- South America, Europe etc.
4. It's Disney- People will come no matter what.

Take those out and Disney won't pull numbers any larger then Magic Mountain.

Not quite.
1. I'll agree with you there--everyone sorta has to go to Disney at least once in their life. They have a great brand recognition going for them.
2. The same groups go to Universal so that's irrelevant.
3. The same as #1, doesn't really matter
4. Also the same as #1

While you're right that Disney has a great brand recognition, Universal has Harry Potter, a franchise that has been experienced by nearly everyone in the world. But the main attraction excludes anyone with motion sickness or under 48 inches tall--the other two (soon to be three) attractions are roller coasters and the Hogwarts Express will probably have an arguably intense dementor encounter making it unsuitable for children as well. The reason Disney's brand outweighs that of Potter is because they've built it themselves, and have established themselves as the top family destination on Earth. If Disney was full of roller coasters, then you're right it wouldn't pull numbers larger than Magic Mountain. But their original concepts that have nothing to do with the Disney name is what gives them their reputation and their attendance. If Universal could build a family-friendly image and leverage that with the popularity of Potter (which is arguably just as good as the popularity of the Disney name), they would have a park to really rival the #1

- - - Updated - - -

My daughter is 2 and has been on ET and loved it. My son (also 2 - twins) went on disaster with me. They almost did not let him on. He does not sit up on his own, but he can sit next to me with me holding him. Well the lady made a comment and I said, let me try. Well he sat up the straightest I have ever seen him sit up. I think he knew what was going on and really wanted to go on. He had a blast. But my kids are not the norm, they go to Theme parks all the time and very little frightens them. Twister and Posiden Fury are the only things that ever has scared them.

I feel even the family friendly rides sometimes have too many restrictions for an entire family to go on them vs. Disney who seems to build their rides to allow things like lap sitting, so younger children can ride them if they want to.

Man, Jaws closed before my kids could go on it, I would have LOVED to see my daughter go on that.



I couldn't agree more with this statement.

I think people freak out when people talk about family rides because they don't want a bunch of lame roller coasters and dark rides to replace their cool tech rides. But that is not what Uni is going to do, nor is it what we are saying they should do. We are saying they should take spaces like Kidzone and use that space for family rides. Or when they do something in JP, add a family ride. These rides can have cool tech and effects, but have less motion to them. So the whole family can enjoy them from the 1 year old that is the youngest member of the family to the 80 year old grandparent. So those families that have reunions down here or just travel with their extended family can enjoy the park. So those families with multiple kids in different ages can enjoy the park more than they can now.

yes, this. There seems to be this negative connotation that family ride means Fantasyland dark ride. This is not the case at all. Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Pooh's Hunny Hunt (often considered some of the best dark rides in the world) are family rides. If FJ had not utilized robotic arm technology, but instead a non-restricting trackless system, would that automatically make it a wimpy kid ride that no one would want to go on? Family ride does not equal lame kid's ride...it's just a blanket term for a solid attraction with no restrictions or overtly intense effects that can literally appeal to everyone in a family

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Exactly. While I think some of the rides you mentioned are more adult friendly than kids, the kids can still ride them. Our mindsets have been so warped by the term "Disney" and what it entails and its getting old. Uni needs to do their thing. They need to find a way to make a few more less intense rides that everyone can enjoy but they need to do it their way.

I could not agree more. This is what I was going for!

 

[TomTheRiddle]

yes, this. There seems to be this negative connotation that family ride means Fantasyland dark ride. This is not the case at all. Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Pooh's Hunny Hunt (often considered some of the best dark rides in the world) are family rides. If FJ had not utilized robotic arm technology, but instead a non-restricting trackless system, would that automatically make it a wimpy kid ride that no one would want to go on? Family ride does not equal lame kid's ride...it's just a blanket term for a solid attraction with no restrictions or overtly intense effects that can literally appeal to everyone in a family

It doesn't help when people keep saying PotC, HM, and Pooh's as examples. The last thing Universal needs is ANY of those. PotC has no tangible story and has ONE interesting moment, HM is fine but its still an omnimover and I hope Universal never lets anything so uncreative into their parks, and Pooh's ride is fine, but with a poor theme.

I'm fine with Universal doing more Cat in the Hat esque rides. I love that ride as a 20 year old. I'm okay with a Big Thunder coaster, too. Luckily Universal knows where their money comes from and is in no rush to add omnimovers or the like. Rides like ET, JAWS, BttF, and Kong are good examples of Universal "family rides," but omnimovers, Shrek rides, and Barneys are the dead weight that this park needs to stray away from.

In the words of a UO manager I met one day "We do our thing and Disney does theirs. We're more like neighbors than enemies; we compete for different age groups and there's no beating either in what they do best." Keep the omnimover rides to Disney. Universal will never be the kid's park that Disney is, nor should it try to be. Disney will never have the appeal to older kids that Universal does.

As far as the 'Universal is doing well, but they could be doing better' routine, that applies to a lot of things. Universal is not so desperate for the extra money that they're going to make massive changes to their business and theming model

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

It doesn't help when people keep saying PotC, HM, and Pooh's as examples. The last thing Universal needs is ANY of those. PotC has no tangible story and has ONE interesting moment, HM is fine but its still an omnimover and I hope Universal never lets anything so uncreative into their parks, and Pooh's ride is fine, but with a poor theme.

I'm fine with Universal doing more Cat in the Hat esque rides. I love that ride as a 20 year old. I'm okay with a Big Thunder coaster, too. Luckily Universal knows where their money comes from and is in no rush to add omnimovers or the like. Rides like ET, JAWS, BttF, and Kong are good examples of Universal "family rides," but omnimovers, Shrek rides, and Barneys are the dead weight that this park needs to stray away from.
l

POTC was a family ride or whatever but it was not exciting it was boring. I found no reason to get on it again.

Haunted Mansion is a great ride all around. Nice Example of a family ride (Not necessarily the ride system) but the ride system it has could work in Universal.


ANyway I got on Big Thunder Mountain for the first time when I was 21 last year, I must say it is not a kiddie ride by any means. It's a high thrill ride for someone who doesn't have a lot of energy or can't handle 200 ft monster roller coasters. (Children 5-10, Old people) Any ride that comes to Universal of the "BigThunderMountain" type well be welcome by me.

I definitely agree with you though about the deadweights. Shrek is terrible ride and hopefully they can pull another "Transformers" of some sort with that show building!

 

[JungleSkip]

It doesn't help when people keep saying PotC, HM, and Pooh's as examples. The last thing Universal needs is ANY of those. PotC has no tangible story and has ONE interesting moment, HM is fine but its still an omnimover and I hope Universal never lets anything so uncreative into their parks, and Pooh's ride is fine, but with a poor theme.

Excuse me while I LOL SO HARD.

Who gives a crap if it doesn't have a tangible story? Tangible stories are the most overrated part of today's themed attractions. And HM is "fine"? Just fine? Pirates and Mansion are still two of the STANDARD bearers for themed entertainment decades after they opened.

Saying Universal would be foolish to build a ride on the level of them is possibly the dumbest thing I have EVER read on a forum, which is saying something.

 

[USO92]

Excuse me while I LOL SO HARD.

Who gives a crap if it doesn't have a tangible story? Tangible stories are the most overrated part of today's themed attractions. And HM is "fine"? Just fine? Pirates and Mansion are still two of the STANDARD bearers for themed entertainment decades after they opened.

Saying Universal would be foolish to build a ride on the level of them is possibly the dumbest thing I have EVER read on a forum, which is saying something.

You obviously missed the ENTIRE message of that WHOLE post.

 

[Bryce]

It doesn't help when people keep saying PotC, HM, and Pooh's as examples. The last thing Universal needs is ANY of those. PotC has no tangible story and has ONE interesting moment, HM is fine but its still an omnimover and I hope Universal never lets anything so uncreative into their parks, and Pooh's ride is fine, but with a poor theme.

I'm fine with Universal doing more Cat in the Hat esque rides. I love that ride as a 20 year old. I'm okay with a Big Thunder coaster, too. Luckily Universal knows where their money comes from and is in no rush to add omnimovers or the like. Rides like ET, JAWS, BttF, and Kong are good examples of Universal "family rides," but omnimovers, Shrek rides, and Barneys are the dead weight that this park needs to stray away from.

In the words of a UO manager I met one day "We do our thing and Disney does theirs. We're more like neighbors than enemies; we compete for different age groups and there's no beating either in what they do best." Keep the omnimover rides to Disney. Universal will never be the kid's park that Disney is, nor should it try to be. Disney will never have the appeal to older kids that Universal does.

As far as the 'Universal is doing well, but they could be doing better' routine, that applies to a lot of things. Universal is not so desperate for the extra money that they're going to make massive changes to their business and theming model

Um... Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean are "uncreative"? What in the... Those two rides have stood the test of time and are still regarded as two of the best rides in existence. It's just incredible that you would say such a thing. Maybe you should head out to Disneyland and ride their twice as long and far more intimate Pirates of the Caribbean. Unless you've already ridden it, then I don't know what else to say. I just cannot see anyone calling those two attractions "uncreative". It's just blasphemous to be honest.

And Pirates of the Caribbean has no tangible story? Have you ridden Forbidden Journey? I love FJ to death, but it really lacks in the "story department". A tangible story is honestly not necessary in helping make an attraction great.

I mean, I can see where you're coming from. The ride systems ARE dated for those two attractions, but they are certainly not uncreative by any means.

 

[JungleSkip]

You obviously missed the ENTIRE message of that WHOLE post.

Oh no. I got it. But the rest was as ridiculous as the first paragraph.

Saying that Universal would be dumb to build those kind of rides is like saying Disney would be dumb to build a ride like Spider-man or Forbidden Journey. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

[USO92]

Oh no. I got it. But the rest was as ridiculous as the first paragraph.

Saying that Universal would be dumb to build those kind of rides is like saying Disney would be dumb to build a ride like Spider-man or Forbidden Journey. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Universal needs to be their own theme park. I for one don't want multiple Disneys or Universals in the same place. They both give a different experience and do different things the best way they can. Im not saying Universal shouldnt adhere to the family or go the way of rides LIKE HM, Potc etc...because I love those rides and would love to see more of their kind in Uni but they need to find their own way of doing it. Like I said in another post, Uni is fixing their mistakes and emerging into a new age of theme park. So who knows...But I honestly do feel they're going to do some crazy awesome stuff if they redo this kidzone area...atleast if Springfield, and the WWoHp's give us any indication.

 

[JungleSkip]

Universal needs to be their own theme park. I for one don't want multiple Disneys or Universals in the same place. They both give a different experience and do different things the best way they can. Im not saying Universal shouldnt adhere to the family or go the way of rides LIKE HM, Potc etc...because I love those rides and would love to see more of their kind in Uni but they need to find their own way of doing it. Like I said in another post, Uni is fixing their mistakes and emerging into a new age of theme park. So who knows...But I honestly do feel they're going to do some crazy awesome stuff if they redo this kidzone area...atleast if Springfield, and the WWoHp's give us any indication.

Of course they need to find their own way of doing it. I don't want them to clone Pirates and Mansion and put them in their parks, LOL. But they need 3 or so rides in each park of that thrill and theme level. They need more rides everyone can ride without needing an iron stomach or a height requirement.

 

[Mike_Wazowski]

Excuse me while I LOL SO HARD.

Who gives a crap if it doesn't have a tangible story? Tangible stories are the most overrated part of today's themed attractions. And HM is "fine"? Just fine? Pirates and Mansion are still two of the STANDARD bearers for themed entertainment decades after they opened.

Saying Universal would be foolish to build a ride on the level of them is possibly the dumbest thing I have EVER read on a forum, which is saying something.

I agree that the concept of 'story' in theme park attractions is one thing which hugely detracts from the majority of modern theme park attractions. The present Disney Imagineering creates stupidly elaborate backstories as to why Prince Charming owns a carousel, when the best of Disney, such as Pirates and Mansion, simply evoke a time, place and setting far more powerfully then any convoluted story ever could. Indeed, Marc Davis, one of the key creative genius behind Pirates, said this regarding 'story':

“He (Walt Disney) didn’t like the idea of telling stories in this medium (ride attractions). It’s not a story telling medium. But it does give you experiences. You experience the idea of pirates. You don’t see a story that starts at the beginning and then ends up with, ‘by golly, they got the dirty dog.’ It wasn’t that way.”

I believe it is partly this intangible atmosphere which creates such a obsessive following around these classic Disney rides. It is the things unsaid, the gaps between scenes which inspire the riders. Just look at all the fan-created backstories for the Haunted Mansion.

Universal on the other hand, as much as I love them, often have the quality of their attractions brought down by this need for 'story'. A absolutely hilarious deconstruction of the plot of Forbidden Journey was written on this blog: http://sparkthedark.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/theme-park-thoughts-harry-potter.html

I hope that if Universal wishes to compete with a Disney-esque audience when refurbishing kidzone, they should attempt to create an experience, not a 'story'. Imagine a dark ride taking you through Hiccup's village and soaring into the skies, or a Pirates-esque boat ride through prehistoric earth loosely themed to the Croods. I don't care how or why we are there, I just want to feel like we are there.