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I caught that they weren't in the second shot, but I couldn't tell if it was camera angles. These two stills show that it wasn't.

So, she did this adventure with William 30 years ago. We have to assume either they found something, or they were stopped. Either way, she 'forgot' about this for 30 years, and is re-tracing the path, this time, without William.

Is she on a 30 year loop? Or is she on a loop that comes up once every 30-whatever years? Is that why it's taken MiB so long to get this far on the maze quest?

My questions about the caskets are -
Why does only one of them have the maze symbol?
Where are they going? They said they loaded the body with nitro to send it 'to the front'. But you don't send dead bodies to the 'front'. Are they sending it into the mesa?

ok- so she could have just been zoning out and it was editing them out to have her hear a voice and "zone"- not different times in that scene, no flashback, etc.

Or- it was a flashback. But- which was the flashback?
-She flashbacked to an earlier time when it was just her and two coffin fulls of nitro that she handled on her own (Killing Lawrence, no other host like william, etc) and she couldnt complete her mission because she was reset because she had no host to accompany her. Now (30 years ago) she has a host in william that shes using to help her complete the task (that she ultimately won't complete). God that sounds so ridiculous to type. lol
Or
-We are seeing two time frames in that scene. One with her after she grabbed a couple coffins full of nitro in the present, and one with william/lawrence 30 years ago.


I'm actually more inclined to believe she was having a flashback 30 years ago (so lets call it 30 years and a month w/o william, and 30 years with william) :D

Regardless, I think we see that storyline play out next week.

I agree that there is so much going on, that so much gets missed - often, it's the dialog. People, myself included, are so busy looking for logo differences, that you miss dialog.

In the podcasts I listen to, they will often misquote dialog (or, more accurately, mis-paraphrase) or will state a point that was totally contradicted by a piece of dialog that they must have missed.

I tried to take a different approach to watching last night - first viewing, watch just for enjoyment... then use additional viewings - because, let's face it, I am going to watch at least once more - for trying to watch the 'around the show' stuff.

You know- that's very true. I think people (myself included) are so interested in the mystery, that we're missing a pretty captivating narrative of questioning what exactly humanity is, and what drives us, etc. It's a very deep show that when taken at face value has enough depth on it's own without being a puzzle. We should embrace the art of it and not just try to solve it.
This show is different, that's for certain. Curious how it will play out and be viewed in 10-15 years.
 
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I got in a half-watch last night. It was on, but I was only halfway (at best) paying attention.

I forgot how much I liked the Red Ted Redemption scene. Speaking of, this show really makes me want to replay Red Dead Redemption. And, it might force me into buying a XBox One or PS4 just so I can play the new version of RDR when it's released. This show is like free advertising for Rockstar games.

New thoughts that came up this time:
When Bernard finds that there are unregistered hosts it shows that there are 5. My initial thought was - dad, mom, lil-Robert, brother, and dog.... but, would the dog be a host? We've not heard them refer to animals as hosts, but we've also not heard them say they aren't.

Maybe the greyhoud is different, too, since it was specifically built? But... where did Ford come from? Is he the 5th unregistered host?

Does he hang out there? Or was he watching Bernard and fast tracked it to the house?

I could ask why they don't do regular scans for unregistered hosts, but that point is moot. We've seen that they are so lax with everything, it's not at all surprising they don't.

I'm sure they think there is little to no chance of unregistered hosts in the park... but then why does the ability to scan for that even exist?
 
Loved, loved, loved this episode. Due to other TV viewing on Tuesday night when this comes out in the UK (...) have only watched once so far, but so much depth and even some pretty cathartic resolutions starting to be brought in with the tour scene. Delores' little mission and all the questions surrounding it are fascinating.
 
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I can't wait. I'm curious if they'll skip Maive altogether. I'm most interested in her and what Elsie found/who grabbed her.
 
I found this amusing, I'm not sure if they meant this as a sort of joke or they really are this clueless.
 
I really like how this show explains something in one scene then kinda shows you another situation that parallels it and allows you to implicitly gain a deeper understanding. I take away from this episode that Dolores makes this journey before in the events that ultimately leading up to Arnold's death. She is repeating with Will. I believe there are 3 time-frames, but am not so sure about Will/MiB. I feel that if Will is making it as far as he seems to be getting the MiB would know more than he does about the maze. At this point either Will is the MiB or is the person to die in the incident. Also when Dolores had the flashbacks, people were saying they were flashbacks of her when alone in the contemporary time-frame remembering the time with Will, but now we know she did this before she did it with Will so if that is what the flashbacks are from that means we haven't seen contemporary Dolores since episode 3 when she kills the rapey milk host. I am sure I will have more thoughs later after I watch it a second time. But the moment when Theresa asks what the door goes to I got all giddy and had a weird feeling at the same time like a scene out of a horror movie. I knew Bernard was a host but that scene still got me.

And last point. ANTHONY HOPKINS!!! He can still play the most gentlemanly menacing character. A desperate man clinging on to the last thing he has. He sees himself as a god protecting the hosts yet to the viewer comes off as such a menacing villain. Also I figured he was printing Theresa to send back topside as an incognito host, but in the preview for next week we see her corpse, so who is he printing? I feel it has some significance.

I love this show.

fyi if you want to put the title for the spoiler to at least give someone a hint at what episode it spoils {spoiler=title of spoiler} for the top tag.
 
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Hell yes. This show is badass. I'll have a bunch to say tomorrow but for now

what do you want to bet that the host ford is making is her as a host replacement he can control

Also, that's the room that Bernard interviews Delores, right? So now it could be robot Bernard from forever ago interviewing Delores- likely not Arnold- I mean hell, he's as old as robot Delores based on the mechanical schematics.
I like this way better. Bernard as Arnold was kind of dumb. I like Arnold being a mystery.



Edit- just read @sjago13 post and he said same thing. I froze the "corpse" scene and did slow mo. I can't tell if it's Theresa or the hooker who was retired. It could also be any other random brunette, of course. Or it could be Theresa. This show can have twists or not and it's captivating

Anthony Hopkins was great
Jeffrey Wright was brilliant- he's my stand out this episode.
 
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Hell yes. This show is badass. I'll have a bunch to say tomorrow but for now

what do you want to bet that the host ford is making is her as a host replacement he can control

Anthony Hopkins was great
Jeffrey Wright was brilliant- he's my stand out this episode.

I had the same initial thought watching but in the previews you see her corpse on a table covered with the board member and Stubbs with Ford looking at her. So it has to be something else, unless both of them are already hosts themselves. He kinda does allusion to the fact he has done this before saying "every now and again they try to out me...". Another thought is that it could be Elsie.
 
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Looking at the #westworld page on twitter shows me how lucky I am to have this thread to kinda clue me in. People are freaking out completely and absolutely shocked. Listen carefully to the dialog in this episode. Your ears are not betraying you even though your brain will try to justify it for a second... ;)
 
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latest
 
Looking at the #westworld page on twitter shows me how lucky I am to have this thread to kinda clue me in. People are freaking out completely and absolutely shocked. Listen carefully to the dialog in this episode. Your ears are not betraying you even though your brain will try to justify it for a second... ;)

Explain further please (in spoiler)
 
Regarding Clementine:

nolan said- regarding her lobotomy.

"They're physically removing part of her personality," he said. "It's like when the NSA has a hard drive they want to get rid of. They don't just erase it, they drill holes in it. The mind of the hosts are organized similar to a human mind, with that frontal lobe containing most of the code for her personality. So the person we know as Clementine is largely gone."

So it sounds like we may see her again just with a totally different personality. Whoever that screws was did a very good role too. Acting has been phenomenal, as it almost always is with HBO.
Also, it may have been her on the white table and not Theresa in next weeks preview- in particular if she were going to make a comeback with a new personality
 
Great episode. Finally got some big answers - and those big answers can throw everything we know into a tailspin.

First, the scenery was amazing this week. There was a clear change in the direction of how the shows have been shot the last two weeks. It seems to coincide with the break in production. One of my favorite places I have ever visited are the national parks in south Utah - particularly Arches. I know they did a lot of shooting in the Moab area and I love seeing that area again.

If this show was release a few months earlier, the "Mannequin Challenge" would be known as the "Westworld Challenge". They were so close to catching a meme wave.

Now on to my random thoughts - warning, there are a LOT of thoughts:
First, a few quick negatives
  • I'm not a fan of the Charlotte character. I mean, I know we aren't supposed to like her, I'm talking about the 'design' of her character. She's not written as well as the others and/or, the actress is getting a bit lost among the other fantastic acting in the scenes.
  • I think I may be the only one, but I still am not finding Evan Rachel Wood's performance very good. I almost tune out when she's talking. I think I finally figured out a few of the reasons:
    • Her Dolores accent is terrible.
    • This one is hard to state, and impossible to prove out, but... if you ignored all of the scenes where we KNOW she is a host (behind the scenes, the fly, etc.) and just put together a super cut of her interactions within the park (with Teddy, William, etc.) then showed all those scenes to someone who knows nothing about the show and said, "One of these people is playing a robot - which one is it?", they would know it was Dolores..
      • In other words, I think she is acting robotic when I don't think she is supposed to. Take a look at Bernard, for instance. He never 'acted' like a robot. He said things that 'sounded' like something a robot would say, but he never felt like cardboard.
      • Who knows, maybe Jeffery Wright didn't know he was playing a robot and ERW did.
    • This one isn't ERWs fault at all - but that wig they strapped on her is horrible.
    • Maybe she's been great in other things and people are seeing that come through? I don't know, I've never seen any of her other work.
  • Theresa's accent is also one that takes me out of her scenes. I wish they would have let the actress keep more of her Danish accent and not tried to make it sound so American. It's so close, but not quite and it brings an odd feeling to her scenes.
Now on to the good stuff
  • Bernard story line
    • Bernard being a host was shocking on the surface. We've kind of been in a state of 'anyone could be a host' - and he was one of the most likely. I was even on the side of "No, he's not a host" and didn't find the reveal shocking.
    • What IS shocking though is - now that we've seen it, ANYONE could be a host. EVERYONE could be a host. All bets are off. Combine this with the reveal in the Clementine scene and things just got insane.
    • They did manage to trick me when Bernard was fired. I though, "Good. At least we know he wasn't a host."
    • When he showed back up, I knew something was off. If you just got fired, without 'divine intervention', they aren't going to let you traipse around in the park - especially in sectors that should be off limits. Then the whole "What's behind this door?" I thought that was the worst piece of dialog this show has given us. Who says that in that moment? She's in a house that no one knew existed and that's the first thing she asks? Of course, we know why they had her ask that, it gave us the key to unlock that reveal.
    • Bernard as host explains so many of my questions around his interviewing of Dolores - why was she clothed? How does Ford not know this is happening?
    • Even the hidden interview room can explain a lot - maybe they are all over the park. That would let them sneak a host out quickly for an interview, then get them right back in.
    • Also explains how Ford just 'appeared' at the house last week. Ford sent Arnold to the house and just met him there. He also sent him to the lower level and fed him the 5 unregistered hosts' information, so that info is now untrustworthy to us.
    • Interesting that Ford says the hosts don't have any self-doubt, then Bernard questions the fact that he is a host.
    • I loved the kill command - "I'm afraid our guest has grown weary. Perhaps you could help her, Bernard."
    • "The hosts are the ones that are free. Free, here, under my control."
    • Ford's gotta rebuild Theresa as a host at this point. I think she saw her new skeleton being printed. lol
      • What better way to get the board on his side than by having Theresa fully under his control.
  • Maeve and Clementine
    • Thandi Newton continues to deliver.
    • It was sweet and heart wrenching that Maeve thought of Clem as a friend.
    • This scene had the bigger reveal to me - and they did it quietly. According to Theresa, the tech was "programmed to read as a human". So now we have Hosts that humans think are human (Bernard) and Hosts that hosts react to as if they are human.
    • How can anyone in that room, now not question their own identity?
  • William and Dolores
    • Still not really interested in their story
    • I can draw at all so I have no frame of reference, but how hard would it be to draw a charcoal drawing on a crumpled up canvas on a moving train? lol
    • Again, the scenery in the William/Dolores scenes was stunning.
  • My big question of the week
    • Was Arnold even real?
      • There is zero proof so far that he ever existed:
        • We saw a picture, but only Bernard saw it so now we know that isn't a solid fact.
        • Logan said that there were no pictures and no one knew anything about him.
      • If he was real, he probably wasn't nearly as important as Ford was in the creation.
      • I think Ford made up the Arnold story - either highly embellished or completely made up.
        • What did he say in one of the early episodes - "You print the legend" or something?
        • So, you make up the story that Arnold was really the one that made the code but that you were also very close to it.
        • That gives you permanence in the park - can't get rid of this guy, he's the only one left with any knowledge - but also gives you an alibi - hey, it wasn't me... it was Arnold!
      • In this episode, when Theresa tried to call and her phone is blocked, Ford says, "Like I said, I built (classic Anthony Hopkins pause) ALL (AH pause) of this."
[\spoiler]
 
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Great episode. Finally got some big answers - and those big answers can throw everything we know into a tailspin.

First, the scenery was amazing this week. There was a clear change in the direction of how the shows have been shot the last two weeks. It seems to coincide with the break in production. One of my favorite places I have ever visited are the national parks in south Utah - particularly Arches. I know they did a lot of shooting in the Moab area and I love seeing that area again.

If this show was release a few months earlier, the "Mannequin Challenge" would be known as the "Westworld Challenge". They were so close to catching a meme wave.

Now on to my random thoughts - warning, there are a LOT of thoughts:
First, a few quick negatives
  • I'm not a fan of the Charlotte character. I mean, I know we aren't supposed to like her, I'm talking about the 'design' of her character. She's not written as well as the others and/or, the actress is getting a bit lost among the other fantastic acting in the scenes.
  • I think I may be the only one, but I still am not finding Evan Rachel Wood's performance very good. I almost tune out when she's talking. I think I finally figured out a few of the reasons:
    • Her Dolores accent is terrible.
    • This one is hard to state, and impossible to prove out, but... if you ignored all of the scenes where we KNOW she is a host (behind the scenes, the fly, etc.) and just put together a super cut of her interactions within the park (with Teddy, William, etc.) then showed all those scenes to someone who knows nothing about the show and said, "One of these people is playing a robot - which one is it?", they would know it was Dolores..
      • In other words, I think she is acting robotic when I don't think she is supposed to. Take a look at Bernard, for instance. He never 'acted' like a robot. He said things that 'sounded' like something a robot would say, but he never felt like cardboard.
      • Who knows, maybe Jeffery Wright didn't know he was playing a robot and ERW did.
    • This one isn't ERWs fault at all - but that wig they strapped on her is horrible.
    • Maybe she's been great in other things and people are seeing that come through? I don't know, I've never seen any of her other work.
  • Theresa's accent is also one that takes me out of her scenes. I wish they would have let the actress keep more of her Danish accent and not tried to make it sound so American. It's so close, but not quite and it brings an odd feeling to her scenes.
Now on to the good stuff
  • Bernard story line
    • Bernard being a host was shocking on the surface. We've kind of been in a state of 'anyone could be a host' - and he was one of the most likely. I was even on the side of "No, he's not a host" and didn't find the reveal shocking.
    • What IS shocking though is - now that we've seen it, ANYONE could be a host. EVERYONE could be a host. All bets are off. Combine this with the reveal in the Clementine scene and things just got insane.
    • They did manage to trick me when Bernard was fired. I though, "Good. At least we know he wasn't a host."
    • When he showed back up, I knew something was off. If you just got fired, without 'divine intervention', they aren't going to let you traipse around in the park - especially in sectors that should be off limits. Then the whole "What's behind this door?" I thought that was the worst piece of dialog this show has given us. Who says that in that moment? She's in a house that no one knew existed and that's the first thing she asks? Of course, we know why they had her ask that, it gave us the key to unlock that reveal.
    • Bernard as host explains so many of my questions around his interviewing of Dolores - why was she clothed? How does Ford not know this is happening?
    • Even the hidden interview room can explain a lot - maybe they are all over the park. That would let them sneak a host out quickly for an interview, then get them right back in.
    • Also explains how Ford just 'appeared' at the house last week. Ford sent Arnold to the house and just met him there. He also sent him to the lower level and fed him the 5 unregistered hosts' information, so that info is now untrustworthy to us.
    • Interesting that Ford says the hosts don't have any self-doubt, then Bernard questions the fact that he is a host.
    • I loved the kill command - "I'm afraid our guest has grown weary. Perhaps you could help her, Bernard."
    • "The hosts are the ones that are free. Free, here, under my control."
    • Ford's gotta rebuild Theresa as a host at this point. I think she saw her new skeleton being printed. lol
      • What better way to get the board on his side than by having Theresa fully under his control.
  • Maeve and Clementine
    • Thandi Newton continues to deliver.
    • It was sweet and heart wrenching that Maeve thought of Clem as a friend.
    • This scene had the bigger reveal to me - and they did it quietly. According to Theresa, the tech was "programmed to read as a human". So now we have Hosts that humans think are human (Bernard) and Hosts that hosts react to as if they are human.
    • How can anyone in that room, now not question their own identity?
  • William and Dolores
    • Still not really interested in their story
    • I can draw at all so I have no frame of reference, but how hard would it be to draw a charcoal drawing on a crumpled up canvas on a moving train? lol
    • Again, the scenery in the William/Dolores scenes was stunning.
  • My big question of the week
    • Was Arnold even real?
      • There is zero proof so far that he ever existed:
        • We saw a picture, but only Bernard saw it so now we know that isn't a solid fact.
        • Logan said that there were no pictures and no one knew anything about him.
      • If he was real, he probably wasn't nearly as important as Ford was in the creation.
      • I think Ford made up the Arnold story - either highly embellished or completely made up.
        • What did he say in one of the early episodes - "You print the legend" or something?
        • So, you make up the story that Arnold was really the one that made the code but that you were also very close to it.
        • That gives you permanence in the park - can't get rid of this guy, he's the only one left with any knowledge - but also gives you an alibi - hey, it wasn't me... it was Arnold!
      • In this episode, when Theresa tried to call and her phone is blocked, Ford says, "Like I said, I built (classic Anthony Hopkins pause) ALL (AH pause) of this."
[\spoiler]

Jeffery Wright was told he was a host going into filming of the second episode. None of the other actors knew, although I bet they told Hopkins as well since he is the creator.
 
Great points as always @Cschaaf - my responses to your comments in bold.

First, a few quick negatives
  • I'm not a fan of the Charlotte character. I mean, I know we aren't supposed to like her, I'm talking about the 'design' of her character. She's not written as well as the others and/or, the actress is getting a bit lost among the other fantastic acting in the scenes. Me either- she's out of her league and doesn't come off that believable.
  • I think I may be the only one, but I still am not finding Evan Rachel Wood's performance very good. I almost tune out when she's talking. I think I finally figured out a few of the reasons:
    • Her Dolores accent is terrible.
    • This one is hard to state, and impossible to prove out, but... if you ignored all of the scenes where we KNOW she is a host (behind the scenes, the fly, etc.) and just put together a super cut of her interactions within the park (with Teddy, William, etc.) then showed all those scenes to someone who knows nothing about the show and said, "One of these people is playing a robot - which one is it?", they would know it was Dolores..
      • In other words, I think she is acting robotic when I don't think she is supposed to. Take a look at Bernard, for instance. He never 'acted' like a robot. He said things that 'sounded' like something a robot would say, but he never felt like cardboard. I agree
      • Who knows, maybe Jeffery Wright didn't know he was playing a robot and ERW did. As @sjago13 said- he found out after episode 1. The guy is a stud though- should be nominated for emmy.
    • This one isn't ERWs fault at all - but that wig they strapped on her is horrible.
    • Maybe she's been great in other things and people are seeing that come through? I don't know, I've never seen any of her other work.
  • Theresa's accent is also one that takes me out of her scenes. I wish they would have let the actress keep more of her Danish accent and not tried to make it sound so American. It's so close, but not quite and it brings an odd feeling to her scenes.
Now on to the good stuff
  • Bernard story line
    • Bernard being a host was shocking on the surface. We've kind of been in a state of 'anyone could be a host' - and he was one of the most likely. I was even on the side of "No, he's not a host" and didn't find the reveal shocking.
    • What IS shocking though is - now that we've seen it, ANYONE could be a host. EVERYONE could be a host. All bets are off. Combine this with the reveal in the Clementine scene and things just got insane.
    • They did manage to trick me when Bernard was fired. I though, "Good. At least we know he wasn't a host."
    • When he showed back up, I knew something was off. If you just got fired, without 'divine intervention', they aren't going to let you traipse around in the park - especially in sectors that should be off limits. Then the whole "What's behind this door?" I thought that was the worst piece of dialog this show has given us. Who says that in that moment? She's in a house that no one knew existed and that's the first thing she asks? Of course, we know why they had her ask that, it gave us the key to unlock that reveal.
    • Bernard as host explains so many of my questions around his interviewing of Dolores - why was she clothed? How does Ford not know this is happening? They specifically showed us Bernard interviewing Hector this episode also- naked- in the main room. Then again- Hector was present during the "conspiring" that Theresa and Charolette planned. So Bernard/Ford easily could have been listening in via Hector- I'd be shocked if they weren't considering he was told thats where he was going.
    • Even the hidden interview room can explain a lot - maybe they are all over the park. That would let them sneak a host out quickly for an interview, then get them right back in. I agree- which might lead credence to the fact Delores is always clothed. It's going to be revealing to see what the heck is going on in those secret interviews. And why would Ford interview her as well as Bernard if the info is all going to the same source? Was he going Rogue? Doubtful. Or is it still the Bernard is Arnold in the past theory?
    • Also explains how Ford just 'appeared' at the house last week. Ford sent Arnold to the house and just met him there. He also sent him to the lower level and fed him the 5 unregistered hosts' information, so that info is now untrustworthy to us. Right- hah
    • Interesting that Ford says the hosts don't have any self-doubt, then Bernard questions the fact that he is a host.
    • I loved the kill command - "I'm afraid our guest has grown weary. Perhaps you could help her, Bernard."
    • "The hosts are the ones that are free. Free, here, under my control."
    • Ford's gotta rebuild Theresa as a host at this point. I think she saw her new skeleton being printed. lol
      • What better way to get the board on his side than by having Theresa fully under his control. Not to mention the "where is Theresa" question if she didn't reappear.
  • Maeve and Clementine
    • Thandi Newton continues to deliver. She might be the best in the show. Her eyes/expressions are incredible- amongst her other attributes :D
    • It was sweet and heart wrenching that Maeve thought of Clem as a friend.
    • This scene had the bigger reveal to me - and they did it quietly. According to Theresa, the tech was "programmed to read as a human". So now we have Hosts that humans think are human (Bernard) and Hosts that hosts react to as if they are human.
    • How can anyone in that room, now not question their own identity? As well as the audience
  • William and Dolores
    • Still not really interested in their story
    • I can draw at all so I have no frame of reference, but how hard would it be to draw a charcoal drawing on a crumpled up canvas on a moving train? lol
    • Again, the scenery in the William/Dolores scenes was stunning. This is the worst storylineof the entire series. We all started out caring about Delores- now I simply don't. I'm glad El Lazo is gone too. The 3 of them are the weakest actors of the bunch. It would be interesting if this is actually Delores' early loop. Maybe shes done this train ride with El Lazo 500 times before with 500 different guys and had that same "dream" of the painting they are about to see 500 times before. And William, thinking this is the place he doesn't pretend, where Delores really has feelings for him, is the same thing shes programmed to do day in day out. That reality and "everything I know is fake" might be what puts him over the edge.
  • My big question of the week
    • Was Arnold even real?
      • There is zero proof so far that he ever existed:
        • We saw a picture, but only Bernard saw it so now we know that isn't a solid fact.
        • Logan said that there were no pictures and no one knew anything about him. That picture we saw def. had his robot dad and an empty spot in it. I'd still lean towards it being Arnold played by Jeffry Wright. But at this point it could just be an empty spot. That "reveal" wouldn't be good, really. His being a robot progresses the story. Him being a recreation of Arnold would be useless and cheap.
      • If he was real, he probably wasn't nearly as important as Ford was in the creation.
      • I think Ford made up the Arnold story - either highly embellished or completely made up.
        • What did he say in one of the early episodes - "You print the legend" or something?
        • So, you make up the story that Arnold was really the one that made the code but that you were also very close to it.
        • That gives you permanence in the park - can't get rid of this guy, he's the only one left with any knowledge - but also gives you an alibi - hey, it wasn't me... it was Arnold!
      • In this episode, when Theresa tried to call and her phone is blocked, Ford says, "Like I said, I built (classic Anthony Hopkins pause) ALL (AH pause) of this." Hopkins is a badass. What more needs to be said.
 
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