Fantasyland Expansion - Part 2

[Felipe]

Just to play the Devil's advocate here (I realize the point is that Disney should be doing more...) - but currently people are excited for a Simpson expansion. Which, consists of some re-theming, a restaurant and even yes, a bathroom!

New fantasyland will ultimately provide a similar (albeit arguably a more magnificently themed environment thanks to rock work) then the Simpsons/Jurassic Park expansions combined.
Dueling Dumbo's - Kudos and Klangs
Be Our Guest - IFF redo
Snow White - Amber Mine Coaster
Mermaid - If they sneak in a JP dark ride
Plus the shops, meet and greets and a bathroom! Love it or hate it!

Knock Disney for forgetting their E ticket (transformers), and response to HP (never mind the fact they should be doing twice as much with two times the parks).

Ultimately this is a needed step in refreshing the lacking parts of Old fantasyland, it's not a waste of time, but yes, it shouldn't be the only thing they are doing...

I think we agree on the particular argument, that New Fantasyland on its own kills New Springfield on its own. Now...

Dueling Dumbos (Doubled capacity, but not new) < Kodos and Kang (New)
Be Our Guest (Completely new) > IFF redo (Re-theme with increased capacity, but not a completely new offering)
Snow White (Replacement) < Amber Mine Coaster (New offering)
Mermaid (New, existing omnimover tech) = JP dark ride (New, possible new technology, but unknown)
Shops, meet and greets and a bathrooms = Shops, meet and greets and a bathrooms

But anyways, we're mainly looking at the big picture of the entire resorts. Over at Universal, it's not just Springfield happening right now, it's also Transformers, and London, and possibly JP. Not to mention, what has already been happening with new offerings and quality improvements recently. Like Despicable Me, Spider-Man enhancements, new lagoon show (which, whether people like or dislike it, the show uses water screens and tech never before seen in theme parks, and even that aside, it's simply another new thing to do/see at Universal). Same goes for SeaWorld with Manta opening and now Antarctica. Fun Spot is opening a huge amount of new stuff very soon. Even looking at Busch Gardens, where we have the new Cheetah Hunt and exhibit, and now the rumored new attraction (drop tower?).

So, ultimately, we agree that New Fantasyland shouldn't be the only new thing at WDW.

 

[STL]

That's a fair point. And the fact is, Disney continues to have great business, so I'm sure they're not dying with worry over the competition in the rest of Orlando.

But, we can't just be oblivious to the competition, and here is where my (and others') qualm comes in. We are theme park fans, and we are closely following them. All of them. And not only when comparing WDW with Universal, but also when comparing it to SeaWorld, and hell, even Fun Spot! They're making impressive moves and competing for our business, satisfaction, and return visits; they're putting out new incredibly themed lands, they're amazing us with new innovative attractions, or even just increasing their new offerings by a staggering amount. So, it looks like everyone else in Orlando is currently going hard, and WDW's moves just pale in comparison.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think what's open in New Fantasyland looks beautifully done, and the rest looks to be in the same level of beauty. No one is questioning that. The problem is that Disney, being the industry giant that it is, doesn't seem to be competing at the level of magnitude as the other parks in Orlando right now. And this is even more noticeable and disappointing because they are the industry giant, the top dog in Orlando.

I'm sure the case could be made that being the oldest resort, they've done a lot of growing already... but time goes on, the market keeps moving forward and evolving, and WDW just seems kind of stuck in time, where they've been for years. I'm not going to start listing things, because it's been done before in this thread and in others. But, basically, it's been years and years since anything major has opened in any of the four WDW parks, and now that they are finally doing something new in MK, it's taking foreeeever to open completely. What's there is beautiful, yes, but there's walls and construction right beside it, so you're not fully immersed in the Disney magic here. And then, when it's all said and done, New Fantasyland is nothing mind blowing. Again, it's beautiful, but it's a restaurant, a tavern, meet and greets, and rides with same-ol' tech (spinner, omnimover, and coaster). Nothing is Earth shattering here. I was, and am, excited about the 7DMC coaster, because it did look like it will have a swinging element that I've never experienced before; that did excite me. And you know what? as stupid as it sounds, that attraction might have been the tipping point to make me buy a ticket to go to MK this year. But, Disney has a missed opportunity, because they're dragging this out and out and out... Then, besides that one element, nothing is much innovative or with amazing new technology, so their efforts underwhelm me/us, theme-park fan(s), when seeing everything else that is going on in the Orlando theme park world and market.

Disney has the resources, and they also have a name to live up to. They should be doing better than this. So, that's my opinion, as a theme park fan, and I think I'm not the only one.

Yep. I think you pretty much summed that up perfectly. Kudos, Felipe. I am a big time vet of the Orlando theme parks, and coming from the middle of the country it doesn't come cheap. We bought a bunch of NE tickets instead of APs many many moons ago for WDW because it made more sense due to our location. We pop in for 2 - 3 days on average of 2 times a year. When we run out of them we are pretty much done.

We have visited UO on every visit that we've made to Orlando and end up spending more time there. I admire their ambition and direction. It was for that reason that we actually bought APs on our visit 2 years ago and will continue to do so as long as they are innovative. I'm pretty sure they have us locked in until at least 2015 and beyond.:thumbs: I prefer to spend my hard earned money where I feel it matters, laurels....not so much.

And for all things whatever.....if you are going to have a really popular kicked up Chevy Show from Six Flags then fix the damn screen and switch to digital already! That isn't even innovative but it would seem somewhat respectful if you expect me to continue to give you my money.

 

[Superior62]

Well I just visited the Magic Kingdom for the first time in three or four years this past Sunday and for what it is worth this is my 2 cents about Fantasyland and the other updated aspects of the park. First off, I didn't take any photos of construction on the mine coaster but I did happen to notice a decent amount of progress to the rock work on the backside of the mountain. The concrete work seems well under way on a portion of the metal form work including some areas that already look to be finish sculpted. Just thought I would mention it since I hadn't seen any pictures of it yet on here.

As far as the rest of the new area it seemed quite a bit smaller to me in person than it looked in photos, which might just be me, but it really did make the scale of the beast's castle look wonky in person. Other than that the area was beautifully themed and I loved the use of all the tree life. It is worth mentioning, however, that the trees are beginning to look a little dry to me. Maybe it is the lack of rain we have been having here in Florida but I would have thought Disney would have its own sprinklers?... I don't know. Its a small complaint but it looked noticeably less green than it did in photos I have seen from after its opening. However, the building facades (and interiors) are very elaborately themed and well detailed as you would expect from Disney. I did not, on the other hand, care much for the circus side of Fantasyland. I think it feels like a huge after thought, a space filler almost, where they stuck some quick tents up temporarily. It doesn't even feel like part of the rest of Fantasyland to be honest. Something that is only sure to be further exemplified when the coaster opens next year. That doesn't really bother me though because I always considered Mickey's Toon Town Fair to be a waste of space before, although it was at least better themed in my opinion.

Aside from the looks there isn't a lot there of interest to me anyway, or my friends and their young boy (except maybe for Dumbo). I did appreciate the theme of the queue for the only new ride (so far) the Little Mermaid, especially in the use of water. And I can also report that the water definitely does cool the air down in that area as it was muggy and overcast the day I visited. Another area where Disney needs to be commended is for some of their new auto animatronics. I rode the Little Mermaid earlier in the day and did not really notice fully but later when I rode on it, and it broke down at the 'kiss the girl' scene, I got a good extended look at the kissing AAs and was impressed with the flexible skin and their realistic head, neck and (in Ariel's case) ponytail movement. Even the puckering frogs, which also employed the impressive flexible skin, looked amazing. Maybe I'm getting too excited about AAs but I thought it was worth mentioning. Now if only they could do something about the eye lids on the other AAs to make them look more real and less... well creepy.

Speaking of break downs though, I've never experienced more break downs in one day at a Disney park in all my life. The Little Mermaid, the Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean (twice, and once for about a half an hour), Buzz Lightyear, and the Carousel of Progress all broke down while I was on them Sunday. That brings me to my biggest gripe with the rest of the park 'improvements'. All this money is being spent on 'interactive' queue elements while rides are apparently in need of better up keep... seriously? I can say that the recently refurbed Thunder and Space (to a lesser degree) mountains never seemed to have a problem, at least not while I was on them, and Splash Mountain is currently down for a refurb of sorts as well. Speaking of interactive queues, can somebody tell me what all those cranks and knobs in the 'new' Thunder Mountain cue do other than catch my hand or watch when I walk by them. They literally do nothing right? I understand kids can crank them and it might keep there attention for a half a second or two but aren't most kids tall enough to ride it just going to be staring blankly at their phone screens and not notice them anyway? Although over all I think they did a great job with the Thunder Mountain refurb, what happened to the moving rocks on the third lift hill? You can't tell me that was too difficult to keep in working order when it has worked for all those years before hand. That was just a lazy move on Disney's part to cut that. Sorry but its true.

Any way, this is beginning to turn into a novel, so I'll just mention one last thing, Food in the new Fantasyland. Admittedly, I did not eat at Be Our Guest but I did grab a snack at Gaston's Tavern at 10:15 pm that night and I got one of their HUGE, warm cinnamon buns. It was quite good, and a value at 3.99 for the size, but I have to admit it was a bit too big in the end for me at least. It is quite good when its warm but the problem is it gets cold by the time you're half way through it and then its just okay. I could see it being ideal to split one with your special someone but since I don't currently have one it would have been better if it was smaller in my case, although that makes it less of a value I guess. And no I did not try the special drink as it sounds awful in my opinion from its description, plus when I can get a bigger Coke for less money (as I mentioned before it was very muggy that day and I was doing a lot of walking) it just makes more sense. As for the Tavern itself, I liked the theming. It is very cozy and quaint inside but, with that being said, what was Disney thinking? At a quarter past ten, in the middle of Extra Magic Hours (even when it was one of the few restaurants still opened) it was a pleasant place to be; however, at the height of the lunch rush that tiny place must be a nightmare to try and eat in. That's why I'll always eat at, as long as they keep it open, the Colombia Harbor House when I'm at the Magic Kingdom for the day. You just can't beat the atmosphere and relative quite of the second floor there, plus the prices are pretty reasonable too.

Anyway, that was just my thoughts for what they are worth. I had a good time over all spending the full 14 hour day in the park. I'm still a Disney fan but I am definitely one of those in that growing group that can't understand what they are thinking half the time any more. Hopefully ride refurbs will continue to happen (at a quicker pace) and the mine coaster will be a decent addition next years but Disney definitely needs to step it up and open some new, bigger stuff in at least a few of its WDW area parks for a change. And the sooner the better.

 

[IzzyB]

Quick question on the ride breakdowns, were the ones in Ariel, Haunted Mansion, and Buzz that long? Or would you say a minute or less?

Omnimovers "break" down a lot but it is not due to mechanical issues, it is to allow handicapped guests load and unload. And while you would think this does not happen a lot, being that we now are always in the handicapped lines, there are a lot of handicapped guests in the park. We never have a need for the moving walk way to stop for us, but we have been with other groups that either needed it slowed down, stopped, or while boarding the crew had to stop it because they were taking too long. Also, we have almost had issues, because they do the loading of handicapped guests at the unloading section and sometimes people don't get out fast enough to allow us in. We have always made it without needing it to stop or slow, but it has been close at times and if we were not quick movers, I could see where others would have issues, especially since most handicapped guests are not quick movers (we carry our son on).

 

[Felipe]

Thanks for the report, Superior62! :rep: And I also would like to acknowledge that Disney does make some incredible AAs :thumbs:

As Izzy mentioned, a lot of omnimover stops are probably to allow for the loading or unloading of someone with special ambulation needs, but if Pirates had an e-stop, then to me it sounds like a breakdown. Either way, in the spirit of fairness, this happens at every park. Rockit at USF has made me wait many, many times with their constant issues, even Manta was down for a long while the last time I went to SeaWorld, and a TM told me it goes down frequently. This is probably because of the advanced tech.

 

[Hockeyman55]

Quick question on the ride breakdowns, were the ones in Ariel, Haunted Mansion, and Buzz that long? Or would you say a minute or less?

Omnimovers "break" down a lot but it is not due to mechanical issues, it is to allow handicapped guests load and unload. And while you would think this does not happen a lot, being that we now are always in the handicapped lines, there are a lot of handicapped guests in the park. We never have a need for the moving walk way to stop for us, but we have been with other groups that either needed it slowed down, stopped, or while boarding the crew had to stop it because they were taking too long. Also, we have almost had issues, because they do the loading of handicapped guests at the unloading section and sometimes people don't get out fast enough to allow us in. We have always made it without needing it to stop or slow, but it has been close at times and if we were not quick movers, I could see where others would have issues, especially since most handicapped guests are not quick movers (we carry our son on).

I had a stoppage on Mansion 2 weeks ago and was about a minute long. I was in heaven since I can get soem great dark ride pictures in during that time. Figured it was someone who was hanicapped and wasnt long at all.

 

[JungleSkip]

I had a stoppage on Mansion 2 weeks ago and was about a minute long. I was in heaven since I can get soem great dark ride pictures in during that time. Figured it was someone who was hanicapped and wasnt long at all.

Photographers: The only people praying the dark ride stops.

 

[Hockeyman55]

Photographers: The only people praying the dark ride stops.

ray:

 

[IzzyB]

Photographers: The only people praying the dark ride stops.

Funny, I don't take pictures, but I tend to like breakdowns as long as they are in good places. It allows me to see those little details that you tend to miss

 

[tribbleorlfl]

Just to play the Devil's advocate here (I realize the point is that Disney should be doing more...) - but currently people are excited for a Simpson expansion. Which, consists of some re-theming, a restaurant and even yes, a bathroom!

My thoughts exactly. I can't believe there's 1700 posts and so much excitement for a re-themeing of an existing restaurant and a new spinner, yet New Fantasyland essentially did the same thing yet it's savaged.

 

[Felipe]

My thoughts exactly. I can't believe there's 1700 posts and so much excitement for a re-themeing of an existing restaurant and a new spinner, yet New Fantasyland essentially did the same thing yet it's savaged.

There's a lot of posts and excitement on that thread because there's constant progress and new things popping up over at Springfield, whereas New Fantasyland already opened parts, which got their due praise, and the rest is going at a slow pace.

I don't think New Fantasyland is getting savaged at all... We're complaining about Disney's way of doing (or not doing) things. I think everyone had a positive response to what opened in New Fantasyland. Though, it is bittersweet, with it being incomplete.

 

[Superior62]

Quick question on the ride breakdowns, were the ones in Ariel, Haunted Mansion, and Buzz that long? Or would you say a minute or less?

Omnimovers "break" down a lot but it is not due to mechanical issues, it is to allow handicapped guests load and unload. And while you would think this does not happen a lot, being that we now are always in the handicapped lines, there are a lot of handicapped guests in the park. We never have a need for the moving walk way to stop for us, but we have been with other groups that either needed it slowed down, stopped, or while boarding the crew had to stop it because they were taking too long. Also, we have almost had issues, because they do the loading of handicapped guests at the unloading section and sometimes people don't get out fast enough to allow us in. We have always made it without needing it to stop or slow, but it has been close at times and if we were not quick movers, I could see where others would have issues, especially since most handicapped guests are not quick movers (we carry our son on).

I wouldn't have considered it a 'break down' if it was a minute or less. All the stoppages I was referring to were at least five or more minutes each. I am, of course, aware of the need to stop the ride to allow for the disabled to have more time to board, in fact there were even a few times I noticed that a couple of the rides slowed down and I assumed that's what it was for; but over five minutes seems like a break down to me. I guess it is possible they were extremely difficult loading situations, I could not say for sure. I'm pretty patient and it doesn't really annoy me all that much but it becomes noticeable when it happens so often (added up it was about an hour of stoppages altogether in a 14 hour day) and I just wonder how the average park guest perceives it.

The Carousel of Progress was the most dramatic break down of the day by far though. After the last scene the building started to move, moved a good five to ten feet, then abruptly jerked to stop between the two scenes. We ended up watching the last scene over again and then it moved on as usual. Don't know what happened there.

 

[Felipe]

All the stoppages I was referring to were at least five or more minutes each.

Then that's definitely troubling!

 

[Splatter]

Then that's definitely troubling!

Especially where each scene in the attraction is designed to only play the same about 30 second loop of multimedia.

 

[Mad Dog]

I've always enjoyed the temporary breakdowns while on the rides. Like another poster said, you get to slow down & see things you normally wouldn't. The best breakdown was on Harry Potter. We were right next to the dragon spewing its spray. My girlfriend screamed for 5 minutes. Great...The other memorable one was a Haunted Mansion breakdown during th ballroom scene. There is just so much going on there that you can't catch but a portion of it during normal movement.

 

[IzzyB]

Then that's definitely troubling!

Agreed, those are true breakdowns. I just was double checking because some people don't know that omnimovers do stop a lot.

I was told by someone that works in engineering that the omnimovers can stop because something "hits" the sensors and it is a pain to start back up because they have to make sure everything is clear.

 

[Superior62]

I've always enjoyed the temporary breakdowns while on the rides. Like another poster said, you get to slow down & see things you normally wouldn't. The best breakdown was on Harry Potter. We were right next to the dragon spewing its spray. My girlfriend screamed for 5 minutes. Great...The other memorable one was a Haunted Mansion breakdown during th ballroom scene. There is just so much going on there that you can't catch but a portion of it during normal movement.

That is certainly true. When the haunted mansion stopped I was right next to the bride in the attic and I had never realized how many different, all be it similar, lines she says. And I got to hear them all multiple times. Plus, as I previously mentioned, the Mermaid breakdown gave me ample time to appreciate those new AAs. They are definitely more impressive when you can really sit there and 'study' them so to speak.

 

[knokout1]

My thoughts exactly. I can't believe there's 1700 posts and so much excitement for a re-themeing of an existing restaurant and a new spinner, yet New Fantasyland essentially did the same thing yet it's savaged.

If that is all we were getting then I am sure it would look the same as this thread. People even say that Simpsons isn't going to be the huge draw to the park. And Simpsons is sprucing things up in an area that needed it, and making the existing area more highly themed. New Fantasyland is a completely new area, so I don't think it's really fair to compare it to Simpsons. I think WWoHP Part 2 vs. New Fantasyland (2 new zones replacing an existing attraction) would be the comparison to make.

 

[Captain Tragedy]

Speaking of stoppages, a friend and I got stuck in front of the Ariel AA singing part of your world for a good ten minutes. This was all during soft openings so that was to be expected. Still, we thought we were going to go insane. And that experience kind of ruined one of the best parts in Philharmagic for a bit. I think was the insane hype from Disney and echo chamber of Disney bloggers that kind of ruined New Fantasyland for me. I was still pumped I got to see it in November and enjoyed the atmosphere and themeing, but I felt it sort of hollow. I wasn't able to experience BoG and I had no desire for Belle's story time whatever. It was pretty to look at, but that's about it.

 

[J03Y]

Speaking of stoppages, a friend and I got stuck in front of the Ariel AA singing part of your world for a good ten minutes. This was all during soft openings so that was to be expected. Still, we thought we were going to go insane. And that experience kind of ruined one of the best parts in Philharmagic for a bit. I think was the insane hype from Disney and echo chamber of Disney bloggers that kind of ruined New Fantasyland for me. I was still pumped I got to see it in November and enjoyed the atmosphere and themeing, but I felt it sort of hollow. I wasn't able to experience BoG and I had no desire for Belle's story time whatever. It was pretty to look at, but that's about it.

i seriously won't be surprised that this website and wdwmagic would've ruined some of the magic for me when i finally go. i mean not completely, but some of it i mean.