General Reality TV Thread

[Legacy]

International Survivor > US Survivor


And Challenge USA was bad. I wouldn’t put it as the worse season (seasons with some cringe/uncomfortable social moments PLUS mediocre challenges are worse for me… Battle of the Seasons is awful and Bloodlines 1 is pretty boring). But it’s pretty obvious that both production had its thumb on the scale and some of these players had NO idea what to expect.

They actually had an opportunity to introduce Challenge favorites to a broader audience, representing the Challenge extremely well with players who know the game. They went the gauche route with a bunch of rookies and it bit them in the ass. No one looked good as a result, save Danny and Desi.

 

[Nick]

International Survivor > US Survivor


And Challenge USA was bad. I wouldn’t put it as the worse season (seasons with some cringe/uncomfortable social moments PLUS mediocre challenges are worse for me… Battle of the Seasons is awful and Bloodlines 1 is pretty boring). But it’s pretty obvious that both production had its thumb on the scale and some of these players had NO idea what to expect.

They actually had an opportunity to introduce Challenge favorites to a broader audience, representing the Challenge extremely well with players who know the game. They went the gauche route with a bunch of rookies and it bit them in the ass. No one looked good as a result, save Danny and Desi.

Yup, could you imagine the group they could’ve gotten if they just would’ve went the obvious way? Plus the baked in rivalries would’ve been there!

I don’t have a full roster, but Mark Long, CT, Bananas, Wes, Darrell, Devin, Kaycee, Nani, Tori, Laurel, Amber, etc. Then other people just for drama.

 

[Legacy]

Yup, could you imagine the group they could’ve gotten if they just would’ve went the obvious way? Plus the baked in rivalries would’ve been there!

I don’t have a full roster, but Mark Long, CT, Bananas, Wes, Darrell, Devin, Kaycee, Nani, Tori, Laurel, Amber, etc. Then other people just for drama.

Just bringing in CT, Darrel, Tori, and Nany (MAYBE Ashley/Jenny in place of Tori/Nany since they’ve won). Those four are safe, entertaining, competent competitors who don’t have so much baggage they would turn off new watchers. Leave the rest of the CBS rookies as is. You’d have a much better show.

Or bring in Never-Wins: Nelson, Cory, Aneesa, Nany.

Just… anyone who is a “pure” Challenger (sourced from an MTV show) to elevate the quality. It could have saved the back half of the season.

 

[Nick]

Just bringing in CT, Darrel, Tori, and Nany (MAYBE Ashley/Jenny in place of Tori/Nany since they’ve won). Those four are safe, entertaining, competent competitors who don’t have so much baggage they would turn off new watchers. Leave the rest of the CBS rookies as is. You’d have a much better show.

Or bring in Never-Wins: Nelson, Cory, Aneesa, Nany.

Just… anyone who is a “pure” Challenger (sourced from an MTV show) to elevate the quality. It could have saved the back half of the season.

I totally agree that that could've worked well too. I didn't actively hate this season. Tyson and Angela were beasts, but would they have been on a normal Challenge season? Eh. Tyson quit (although he didn't know how to do Sudoku and the directions were very vague just saying "Complete the pattern", so i'm not sure what he was supposed to do. Angela i'm 100% sure could hold up against MTV Challengers. I think she just thought what she was doing was the smartest thing for her and I kinda agree since the rules were all over the place and she got DQ'd.

But just bringing in 4-6 MTV Challengers would've forced everyone else to up their game, even the people who did best on this season. Enzo surely wouldn't have made it to the final and the Final gets run in a more professional fashion because you'd have a lot of people running it that, especially if you brought in people who've never won, really want it and know what it takes.

EDIT: On the point of baggage though... Anyone who has watched pretty much all of The Challenge seasons will be able to bring up CT's ummm... incident and forced his three season disappearance from the cast (essentially four when you consider he was ejected from the show on Episode 1). Obviously the past is the past and that's why The Challenge is much more strict with alcohol consumption now because things used to get ridiculous before. I don't see MTV fans making a fuss about that, but you introduce him to 1-2M new viewers and someone is probably gonna dig up that past and make it a big deal 15 years years or so later.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

THE MOLE IS OUT

First five episodes I give a B+, they're solid and keep improving but they're not behooved to the original version's choices. Highlights of the new season include a fun triple prison break (with some fun gambling on the side), a food challenge, and some fun downtime segments (I want a beer in an outback pub!).

As for who I think is The Mole

Spoiler: My Guess

In addition to her weird delay tactics and fucking up the bank heist (I mean come on, MIDAS?!?!) the C4 bomb during the Lunch challenge had a zip code on it for where she was born. Seems like a big clue.

 

[Nick]

THE MOLE IS OUT

First five episodes I give a B+, they're solid and keep improving but they're not behooved to the original version's choices. Highlights of the new season include a fun triple prison break (with some fun gambling on the side), a food challenge, and some fun downtime segments (I want a beer in an outback pub!).

First of all, thanks for posting about this because I literally would've gone for months without realizing. It's not promoted on the Netflix home page almost at all right night and truth be told, I haven't been using Netflix a ton lately, anyway. Just started watching earlier and man it's a trip seeing a brand new American version of this show again after not having one since 2008. Hopefully the viewership is deemed high enough for this version though, as that's always sort of been it's issue.

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

First episode in and I am quite disappointed in the casting. Could’ve been much more age variety. Presentation and format im with but I wish they’d lead into the spy-ness of it all a taaaad more. The fact the first episode ended on a cliff hanger and I didn’t immediately go to episode 2 isn’t a great sign.

It’s a pilot though, essentially, and I will finish the show. Certainly wasn’t bad!

 

[Nick]

There's a quiz you can take on the Netflix website for the first five episodes for who you think the mole is. My top picks are Greg, Kesi, and Jacob. I think the mole is using Joi because they know she's always gonna screw things up. It's too early for me to make a definitive call on who it is until I see some of the next batch.

Here’s Who YOU Think the Mole Is

Thanks for playing! Your top five suspects are....

www.netflix.com

 

[Legacy]

I’m enjoying the Mole, but the lack of traditional “reality competition” structure (and general style) is really undercutting aspects for me. Everyone episode ending on a random cliff-hanger is lazy. Not using riddles to introduce the challenges (like the original) lessens some of the chaos. And (someone mentioned this before and now I can’t not see it) the casting is pretty safe.

I’m all for chaos agents, but this is an astoundingly dumb group.

 

[Nick]

I’m enjoying the Mole, but the lack of traditional “reality competition” structure (and general style) is really undercutting aspects for me. Everyone episode ending on a random cliff-hanger is lazy. Not using riddles to introduce the challenges (like the original) lessens some of the chaos. And (someone mentioned this before and now I can’t not see it) the casting is pretty safe.

I’m all for chaos agents, but this is an astoundingly dumb group.

The group keeps putting people like Joi in a leadership position even though she has proven time and time again that she will do everything in her power to screw it up. When do people finally just stand up and finally say enough to her? It's like this group wants to owe money by the end of the game.

The thing i'm missing is talks with the cast or just general segments around the house for a bit. Like for example, there's certain situations that happen in these first few episodes. The button situation to be exact. That caused a lot of tension and they just sort of... moved on. No follow up on any drama between the cast about that.

Next episode at the Great Barrier Reef, Greg talks a big game like he's this professional scuba diver, inexplicably puts on a life vest like a diaper, and either Dom or William said they were going to rip him about it. We saw nothing come of it because the show doesn't actually seem to want to focus the aftermath of these assignments.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Identity, pacing, and resolutions are the biggest issues with the reboot. The good news is most of that is editing, the actual in the field stuff is really solid with good game design, fun characters, and interesting conflicts. For identity I saw this and agree...



One has context, drama, and stakes and the other is... whatever. Netflix tried to The Circle it to death and this is the result. Now you see what they're trying to do with the logo/icon on the main page and you start asking what's going on.

 

[DeadSexeh]

So I am 3 episodes into the mole. Watched it when it was originally on, but I don't remember much. I am a little confused, is there a reason for the mole to sabotage? They don't earn more money by losing challenges so why would they ever throw a mission?

 

[Legacy]

So I am 3 episodes into the mole. Watched it when it was originally on, but I don't remember much. I am a little confused, is there a reason for the mole to sabotage? They don't earn more money by losing challenges so why would they ever throw a mission?

It’s never been directly stated what the Mole gets out of sabotaging the game. I’ve always assumed the Mole wins whatever they can actively attribute to preventing the group from winning. The show Killer Camp (which is very similar to The Mole) has it set up where the Killer wins whatever the Innocents don’t win. I imagine that’s the only incentive.

 

[Nick]

It’s never been directly stated what the Mole gets out of sabotaging the game. I’ve always assumed the Mole wins whatever they can actively attribute to preventing the group from winning. The show Killer Camp (which is very similar to The Mole) has it set up where the Killer wins whatever the Innocents don’t win. I imagine that’s the only incentive.

I do wish they would have stated what The Mole's incentive is in sabotaging.

Anyway, i'll use The Mole as a way to transition over to The Challenge: Ride or Dies since the actual mole from a season of The Mole Germany is on and tried to get away with lying about being on that show (classic Mole behavior) and someone knew who they were.

For those who watch it, what did you think of the premiere? Thought it was a bit in the middle, but the team who wins the daily challenge each week now has A LOT more power than usual. I'm up and down on it. I don't necessarily like so much power, but then again, normally rookies get picked off quickly in The Challenge, so this evens things out if they can win the daily challenges as we saw in this episode. Was too bad to see Kaycee & her brother go out before the show really even began and I was confused why Bananas & Nani were brought out WWE style instead of starting from the beginning, but whatever.

 

[Legacy]

I do wish they would have stated what The Mole's incentive is in sabotaging.

Anyway, i'll use The Mole as a way to transition over to The Challenge: Ride or Dies since the actual mole from a season of The Mole Germany is on and tried to get away with lying about being on that show (classic Mole behavior) and someone knew who they were.

For those who watch it, what did you think of the premiere? Thought it was a bit in the middle, but the team who wins the daily challenge each week now has A LOT more power than usual. I'm up and down on it. I don't necessarily like so much power, but then again, normally rookies get picked off quickly in The Challenge, so this evens things out if they can win the daily challenges as we saw in this episode. Was too bad to see Kaycee & her brother go out before the show really even began and I was confused why Bananas & Nani were brought out WWE style instead of starting from the beginning, but whatever.

Vibe felt a bit weird with the opening. Things felt too “happy” for the Challenge. That said, I dig the Draw’s return and the way the subverted it this season. The Draw always invites a bit of chaos, but this will cause heaps of drama because two different pairs become guilty parties to the elimination. It will cause a lot of politicking… especially when 4 vet pairs are getting interrogated.

The Bananas/Nany reveal worked on multiple levels. First off, IT PROTECTS BANANAS. You don’t convince the franchise’s biggest name and then risk a first episode elimination. Because if he was in the first episode, and things play out similarly with the Daily, Bananas is in elimination. Second, his return is a twist for the other players. Especially with this group where he has no real friends but his partner does (though losing Kaycee hurts). It drastically shifts how the game has to be played by everyone.

Jordan and Aneesa showing up are going to cause a similar shakeup.

Third, it’s just better television. It’s an Enforcer moment.

 

[Nick]

Vibe felt a bit weird with the opening. Things felt too “happy” for the Challenge. That said, I dig the Draw’s return and the way the subverted it this season. The Draw always invites a bit of chaos, but this will cause heaps of drama because two different pairs become guilty parties to the elimination. It will cause a lot of politicking… especially when 4 vet pairs are getting interrogated.

The Bananas/Nany reveal worked on multiple levels. First off, IT PROTECTS BANANAS. You don’t convince the franchise’s biggest name and then risk a first episode elimination. Because if he was in the first episode, and things play out similarly with the Daily, Bananas is in elimination. Second, his return is a twist for the other players. Especially with this group where he has no real friends but his partner does (though losing Kaycee hurts). It drastically shifts how the game has to be played by everyone.

Jordan and Aneesa showing up are going to cause a similar shakeup.

Third, it’s just better television. It’s an Enforcer moment.

I mean, i'm fine with it and I get that was meant to protect Bananas, but after CT and Bananas stop playing, what even is the identity of the challenge going forward? People like Devin, Tori, Kaycee, and Fessy etc? The real characters are starting to disappear from the show and it's becoming more and more bland as the years go on.

Much like Tom Brady, CT or Bananas could do this and dominate well into their 40's and still be the most entertaining people on the show at this rate. Hell, you could bring back Wes or Derek into the mainline show from All-Stars and you could say the same about them. It's a shame that the show hasn't really gotten any worthy Fresh Meat (so to speak) except for here and there over the past 10-15 years. I put a lot of the blame in this on casting. I know they've been trying the past few seasons to bring in a lot of fresh cast members, but I feel like it's been mostly misses except for a few instances.

I'd be interested to see what some of these people from The Mole can bring to The Challenge, especially William and Dom.

 

[Legacy]

They were cold-casting at Spartan races before the pandemic, so I’m pretty sure they were trying to pull off a Fresh-Meat style season again.

I think the problem with casting the show, now, is that The Challenge has evolved into a pure GAME. The original appeal of the show when it started was that the cast were just people playing a game. Real World wasn’t about any competition and Road Rules was more about the traveling. Because of that, the players were just entertaining people playing a game. Now, though, they’re casting people because of how they play games. The vibe, and focus, has shifted. As a result, the interpersonal dynamics that made the Challenge interesting has fallen to the wayside. And, because casting is so scattershot now, the new people coming in have no connection to ANYONE. That means there are no stories to make them interesting.

The aspects of the first episode that worked were the Ravyn’s unrequited love for Johnny, which is an interesting relationship that can impact the game, and Turbo’s mere existence, which creates relationships that can impact the game. In general, that’s what is missing.

CT became a legend because of his relationship with Diem and how it softened him. Bananas became a legend because of how he burned every single person who trusted him. Cara became a legend because she went from easy lay-up to multi-time champion. They had multi-season arcs. Everyone else, even if they’ve been there multiple seasons, are just flat.

 

[Nick]

They were cold-casting at Spartan races before the pandemic, so I’m pretty sure they were trying to pull off a Fresh-Meat style season again.

I think the problem with casting the show, now, is that The Challenge has evolved into a pure GAME. The original appeal of the show when it started was that the cast were just people playing a game. Real World wasn’t about any competition and Road Rules was more about the traveling. Because of that, the players were just entertaining people playing a game. Now, though, they’re casting people because of how they play games. The vibe, and focus, has shifted. As a result, the interpersonal dynamics that made the Challenge interesting has fallen to the wayside. And, because casting is so scattershot now, the new people coming in have no connection to ANYONE. That means there are no stories to make them interesting.

The aspects of the first episode that worked were the Ravyn’s unrequited love for Johnny, which is an interesting relationship that can impact the game, and Turbo’s mere existence, which creates relationships that can impact the game. In general, that’s what is missing.

CT became a legend because of his relationship with Diem and how it softened him. Bananas became a legend because of how he burned every single person who trusted him. Cara became a legend because she went from easy lay-up to multi-time champion. They had multi-season arcs. Everyone else, even if they’ve been there multiple seasons, are just flat.

The CT/Diem arc is maybe my favorite few years on the show in general.

Honestly, maybe the easiest way to get back to basics on this show and is to use Paramount+ to transition back a bit. Bring back both The Real World and Road Rules. Just focus on having interesting people. Then eventually some of them can graduate to The Challenge and maybe you're looking at better overall competitors and fun people to watch, not people playing a character (like a lot of the players these days).

I say this selfishly because I want Road Rules to come back. Would Real World still work? Eh, certainly not like before. It was a show of it's time, but the Surreal Life is coming back (which is sort of rooted in The Real World's formula), so it could definitely still work if they wanted it to.

 

[Legacy]

The CT/Diem arc is maybe my favorite few years on the show in general.

Honestly, maybe the easiest way to get back to basics on this show and is to use Paramount+ to transition back a bit. Bring back both The Real World and Road Rules. Just focus on having interesting people. Then eventually some of them can graduate to The Challenge and maybe you're looking at better overall competitors and fun people to watch, not people playing a character (like a lot of the players these days).

I say this selfishly because I want Road Rules to come back. Would Real World still work? Eh, certainly not like before. It was a show of it's time, but the Surreal Life is coming back (which is sort of rooted in The Real World's formula), so it could definitely still work if they wanted it to.

I desperately want Road Rules to come back.

 

[Nick]

I desperately want Road Rules to come back.

Hell, i'd be happy if they would finally add Road Rules to Paramount+. There's no reason for it not to be on there.