Pandora: The World of Avatar Announcement, Construction, & Preview Discussion

[Clive]

Put me in the camp of accepting Pandora within the logical limits of Animal Kingdom's mission statement. Doesn't really need further explanation, it just clicks into place.

That said, totally agree with Next Big Thing: this didn't deserve a theme park land. It certainly didn't deserve a billion dollars. And I'm amazed at the meager roster/quality of attractions.

 

[twebber55]

Except Pandora fits extremely well within DAK and it's core principals. It just wasn't necessarily deserving of a full land.

what deserves a land? whats the requirements? does toy story deserve a land, mysterious island? New Orleans square? Carsland? Jurassic Park?
and if its a non IP what do you do about that?

 

[Tobias]

Considering we all know Disney wants this a equivilant to Potter, we have to judge it as such. An' while Avatar may have enough for a ride, however something that's been brought up again and again is it's lack of food and merch which has become a key element in these new immersive lands. F&M is a huge money maker, especially when it's combined with a IP that's engrained into pop culture.

Potter get's millions from the wands, and I don't know a single person who's gone to Hogsmeade or Diagon Alley and hasn't tried some form of Butterbeer. Add in the robes, scarfs, pumpkin juice, candies, ice cream and so forth and you've got a nice ROI right there.

In comparison, Avatar is not engrained into pop culture like Potter is. It came as one film and then promptly dropped off the earth and hasn't been relavant for 8 years, leading to articles wondering what the heck happened. I can't name even one distinctive food or merch from Avatar that's gonna' sell like crazy.

In this day of immersive theme park lands, you have to look beyond just a attraction. You have to look at the things which really help with that ROI, and Avatar is simply lacking in those food and merch catagories.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Considering we all know Disney wants this a equivilant to Potter, we have to judge it as such. An' while Avatar may have enough for a ride, however something that's been brought up again and again is it's lack of food and merch which has become a key element in these new immersive lands. F&M is a huge money maker, especially when it's combined with a IP that's engrained into pop culture.

Potter get's millions from the wands, and I don't know a single person who's gone to Hogsmeade or Diagon Alley and hasn't tried some form of Butterbeer. Add in the robes, scarfs, pumpkin juice, candies, ice cream and so forth and you've got a nice ROI right there.

In comparison, Avatar is not engrained into pop culture like Potter is. It came as one film and then promptly dropped off the earth and hasn't been relavant for 8 years, leading to articles wondering what the heck happened. I can't name even one distinctive food or merch from Avatar that's gonna' sell like crazy.

In this day of immersive theme park lands, you have to look beyond just a attraction. You have to look at the things which really help with that ROI, and Avatar is simply lacking in those food and merch catagories.

100% Agree.

Yes, the rock work is impressive, but you will not feel immersed if you can buy a coke from a food stand in Pandora. I want to drink what the actors/characters would drink, not the average stuff.

 

[adjjb]

Interesting article from Forbes on the new impact of Avatar.
Eight Years On, 'Avatar' Is Finally Having A Cultural Impact

 

[Legacy]

100% Agree.

Yes, the rock work is impressive, but you will not feel immersed if you can buy a coke from a food stand in Pandora. I want to drink what the actors/characters would drink, not the average stuff.

That's the great irony. The restaurant is a military chow hall. I can tell you from experience, it doesn't get much more mundane than that.

But the discussion boils to down to what has always been the issue. Disney appears to be treating Avatar, the IP, as the Potter killer. Sure, they appear to be matching the build quality, but in doing that, they also appear to be completely ignoring (or unaware of) what actually makes Potter work so well in the parks. Details we care about - stores, merch, food - is why Potter does gangbusters. Avatar, despite Disney's best efforts, doesn't have that.

The rides are nice. The land (and bioluminescence) looks lovely. I even get the logic of putting it in Animal Kingdom (if we ignore the terraforming canonical destruction it requires). But Disney doesn't seem to really get that Avatar does not equal Potter. Star Wars can, and maybe will, be what Disney wants as a competitor to Potter, but the frame of reference for Avatar is way, way off.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

what deserves a land? whats the requirements? does toy story deserve a land, mysterious island? New Orleans square? Carsland? Jurassic Park?
and if its a non IP what do you do about that?

that's... not the point. but ok?

 

[Mad Dog]

Anecdotal story on the 'short commercial' we've been debating......Background. My GF loves Universal & Disney (not a pixie duster though), but unlike me, she pays no attention to any theme park news. She had no idea about Pandora at AK... While watching Modern Family tonight, one of the real short Pandora commercials popped up. I asked her about her thoughts. She said, "Wow. That's amazing and beautiful. I want to see that". Just saying.

 

[twebber55]

that's... not the point. but ok?

thats exactly the point

 

[SeventyOne]

Rather than rehashing whether this was a good idea or not, let's recognize it's opening in a few months. Bigger question becomes, what's Plan B? After the initial lifestyler rush, when what little business it does cannibalizes diners from EPCOT and souvenir-shoppers from MK, how do you fix it? It strikes me as too big to fail. Yet a third ride seems out of the question, a show would be almost impossible to do without audiences laughing. Do they start offering DAK as a de facto free ticket if you pay to see MK/EPCOT/Star Wars? Build another new land and sort of let this rot with minimal staffing? Is there a way out if this doesn't work?

 

[Legacy]

Bigger question becomes, what's Plan B? After the initial lifestyler rush, when what little business it does cannibalizes diners from EPCOT and souvenir-shoppers from MK, how do you fix it? It strikes me as too big to fail. Yet a third ride seems out of the question, a show would be almost impossible to do without audiences laughing. Do they start offering DAK as a de facto free ticket if you pay to see MK/EPCOT/Star Wars? Build another new land and sort of let this rot with minimal staffing? Is there a way out if this doesn't work?

I think this is the only reason why I'm so fascinated. It may work. And the sequels may invigorate attendance. But I think you're right in that it's too big to fail. I think either goes the way of Fievel (an IP struggling for relevance and clinging to limited nostalgia), OR they bite the bullet in ten years and convert Pandora to Australia.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

I think the biggest disappointment is that with all the fantastic scenery is just a facade for a fully screen based ride.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Rather than rehashing whether this was a good idea or not, let's recognize it's opening in a few months. Bigger question becomes, what's Plan B? After the initial lifestyler rush, when what little business it does cannibalizes diners from EPCOT and souvenir-shoppers from MK, how do you fix it? It strikes me as too big to fail. Yet a third ride seems out of the question, a show would be almost impossible to do without audiences laughing. Do they start offering DAK as a de facto free ticket if you pay to see MK/EPCOT/Star Wars? Build another new land and sort of let this rot with minimal staffing? Is there a way out if this doesn't work?

Hollywood Studios is already cutting extra magic hours at night, I expect Epcot would too in the end. In the future I expect the 50th and Epcot ideas get paired back a lot.

 

[adjjb]

But the discussion boils to down to what has always been the issue. Disney appears to be treating Avatar, the IP, as the Potter killer. Sure, they appear to be matching the build quality, but in doing that, they also appear to be completely ignoring (or unaware of) what actually makes Potter work so well in the parks. Details we care about - stores, merch, food - is why Potter does gangbusters. Avatar, despite Disney's best efforts, doesn't have that.

I don't think Disney is treating Avatar as the Potter killer at all. Animal Kingdom isn't the jam packed 4 hour line wait park. It's the relaxing more chill day park. Avatar land always looked like a more walk and immerse yourself in the tech land.

Now, merch/shopping/food? Something they think is meant to compete with Wizarding World. I think is more Star Wars Land. Already announced fine dining, a cantina, a full market place. Lots of little kiosks and shops in the Star Wars theme.

LA Times even said with SWL Disney is planning an immersion found in Wizarding World. With both LA and Orlando getting a SWL just like Wizarding World.

 

[snayberry]

I know this is going to be good. I'm pretty pumped for it.

 

[Miketheboss]

Wasn't BB-8 a new Star Wars character? (Not a Star Wars fan) They started selling a bunch of BB-8 merch in the parks. I can see something like that happening with the future Avatar films, the integration of new characters within the land.

 

[Brian G.]

Wasn't BB-8 a new Star Wars character? (Not a Star Wars fan) They started selling a bunch of BB-8 merch in the parks. I can see something like that happening with the future Avatar films, the integration of new characters within the land.

To be fair - Star Wars was a merch mover. It's pretty much the grandfather of IP/Merch synergy.

 

[Andysol]

Considering we all know Disney wants this a equivilant to Potter, we have to judge it as such..

We all know Disney wants this an equivalent to Potter? We all know that? How?

I think it serves a massively different purpose than hogsmeade did at IoA as well as a different purpose than diagon did at USF.

So Disney needs Avatar to essentially pull its entire resort out of terrible attendance and profits?
So Disney needs Avatar to sell park hoppers and merchandise/drinks/wand equivalents?

Should they have picked Avatar? Debatable
Should they have spent $1B? Nope
Is this attempting to be a Potter equivalent? Definitely not.


Tiffins
Harambe Expansion including 3 new dining spots
Rivers of Light and Theater
Tree of Life Refurb/Light Show
Nighttime Safari
Flame Tree Expansion
Various other dining cart/Starbucks expansions
Discovery Island Shopping Expansion
Massively Expanded infructure and walkways
Pandora with two rides, stage, restaurant, bar, shop, etc

All just in the last two years

All of this wasn't done to combat Potter. And it wasn't all done to address Avatar crowds. It was done to make a more complete park. With longer stays for park goers and to take some pressure off MK with DHS' hell. I think they'll be successful here.

The Potter comparisons aren't needed outside of comparing immersiveness because they serve two entirely different purposes.

 

[twebber55]

We all know Disney wants this an equivalent to Potter? We all know that? How?

I think it serves a massively different purpose than hogsmeade did at IoA as well as a different purpose than diagon did at USF.

So Disney needs Avatar to essentially pull its entire resort out of terrible attendance and profits?
So Disney needs Avatar to sell park hoppers and merchandise/drinks/wand equivalents?

Should they have picked Avatar? Debatable
Should they have spent $1B? Nope
Is this attempting to be a Potter equivalent? Definitely not.


Tiffins
Harambe Expansion including 3 new dining spots
Rivers of Light and Theater
Tree of Life Refurb/Light Show
Nighttime Safari
Flame Tree Expansion
Various other dining cart/Starbucks expansions
Discovery Island Shopping Expansion
Massively Expanded infructure and walkways
Pandora with two rides, stage, restaurant, bar, shop, etc

All just in the last two years

All of this wasn't done to combat Potter. And it wasn't all done to address Avatar crowds. It was done to make a more complete park. With longer stays for park goers and to take some pressure off MK with DHS' hell. I think they'll be successful here.

The Potter comparisons aren't needed outside of comparing immersiveness because they serve two entirely different purposes.

best post in this thread and makes for more sense than the conspiracy theory stuff
this serves a different purpose than Potter and this expansion is much bigger than any one land:clap:

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Avatar is the cherry on top to make Animal Kingdom a full complete park.
Once Avatar opens, it'll be DHS and then Epcot.