Pandora: The World of Avatar Announcement, Construction, & Preview Discussion

[rcoasterdude]

I think Disney's Harry Potter will for sure be Star Wars. The amount of hype surrounding it is insane. Not to mention, well I think, Star Wars is the biggest IP in the world at the moment. The movies will keep bringing in billions. Just insane. Then when SNW opens, it'll be a battle for the ages

 

[Owen]

At the end of the day the main purpose they serve is the same any other development at any park in the world. To make money. That being said this is still a new area based on an IP, so it is inevitable that comparisons will be made, and rightly so in my opinion. Of course this isn't anticipated to be something near the level of Potter or to serve the same purpose to the park it is in, however that doesn't mean that we as a community shouldn't criticise the development for being somewhat lacking compared to Potter. Just because they serve different purposes to their respective parks doesn't mean that one or the other should seem almost a missed opportunity and get away with it because it's not directly competing with the other - especially when Pandora has been marketed somewhat similarly to Potter in respect to the "new world" aspect.

Sorry if I have completely missed the point but whilst it's great Animal Kingdom is getting some love and attendance will rise, that doesn't really excuse the fact that yes, Pandora is fairly lacking in experiences that don't involve staring at some glowing leaves compared to Potter and I personally find that a bit disappointing. I am still looking forward to Avatar, but I can't deny that I have a lot of "what if's" about the area which isn't ideal. However, we still aren't sure what the area will feel like and this lack of various little extras might work out, we will just have to wait and see.

 

[twebber55]

At the end of the day the main purpose they serve is the same any other development at any park in the world. To make money. That being said this is still a new area based on an IP, so it is inevitable that comparisons will be made, and rightly so in my opinion. Of course this isn't anticipated to be something near the level of Potter or to serve the same purpose to the park it is in, however that doesn't mean that we as a community shouldn't criticise the development for being somewhat lacking compared to Potter. Just because they serve different purposes to their respective parks doesn't mean that one or the other should seem almost an missed opportunity and get away with it because it's not directly competing with the other - especially when Pandora has been marketed somewhat similarly to Potter in respect to the "new world" aspect.

Sorry if I have completely missed the point but whilst it's great Animal Kingdom is getting some love and attendance will rise, that doesn't really excuse the fact that yes, Pandora is fairly lacking in experiences that don't involve staring at some glowing leaves compared to Potter and I personally find that a bit disappointing. I am still looking forward to Avatar, but I can't deny that I have a lot of "what if's" about the area which isn't ideal. However, we still aren't sure what the area will feel like and this lack of various little extras might work out, we will just have to wait and see.

how do you know it it is lacking?
honest question

 

[Legacy]

We all know Disney wants this an equivalent to Potter? We all know that? How?

I remember an article from years ago (not long after Avatars was announced), where it's explained Disney saw the success of Potter, said, "We need a Potter," struck a deal with Cameron and announced Avatar. That's why I say we "know" that.

You can even see it in the timeline of events.

December 18, 2009 - Avatar opens
June 18, 2010 - Hogsmeade opens
September 17, 2011 - Avatar deal is signed and announced on the 20th.

So, yes, Avatar was in response to the success of Potter. The story goes, after Disney saw Universal's yearly profits do what they did, they wanted some of that action. They didn't even START negotiations for Avatar until 2011, after Potter's success was assured. And while Avatar isn't meant to save the resort, we're damn sure it's meant to "save" Animal Kingdom. Everything else the park is getting (dining, retail, shows) is in support of Avatar.

 

[Owen]

how do you know it it is lacking?
honest question

We can see from the approximate planning documents and aerials that it is lacking in retail opportunities, and in terms of any street entertainment that is very much a wait and see scenario like I had said in my original point. It isn't hard to see that so far this is lacking compared to Potter and people have the right to feel disappointed about it. I am looking forward to this personally but can see it's flaws much like I try to do with every development, as blindly saying that things are "good enough" doesn't help a park to build on things and make them even more incredible.

 

[Miketheboss]

We can see from the approximate planning documents and aerials that it is lacking in retail opportunities, and in terms of any street entertainment that is very much a wait and see scenario like I had said in my original point. It isn't hard to see that so far this is lacking compared to Potter and people have the right to feel disappointed about it. I am looking forward to this personally but can see it's flaws much like I try to do with every development, as blindly saying that things are "good enough" doesn't help a park to build on things and make them even more incredible.

Diagon Alley is a mall, of course Pandora is lacking retail shops, that's how it should be.

 

[Owen]

Of course I am not specifically referring to shops alone (I should have made that clearer, sorry), I am sure James Cameron would have plenty of ideas for some extra little permanent experiences around the area (similar to the Wand Shop).

The point is that although they are being installed for different reasons for the park, why should that mean that as a whole people shouldn't compare the two. To me it just comes across as "because Disney are doing XY and Z here, its fine for Avatar to be slightly less impressive than other areas and for there to be less put into it" which to me at least shouldn't be the way things are looked at.

Edit - Just thought I would add that whilst I say it should be fine to compare the two, I still think we should wait until its open to 'truly' compare them obviously, as like I say we may end up seeing lots of pop-up entertainment (fingers crossed).

Moving away from this, what are everyone's thoughts on crowds during September for Avatar. Whilst it's a new area, Animal Kingdom is no Magic Kingdom so has anyone got any estimates of what the line times will be?

 

[UniversalRBLX]

What IP does disney own or can get to be somewhat similar to Diagon? Where Disney can make numerous shops & dining.

 

[twebber55]

We can see from the approximate planning documents and aerials that it is lacking in retail opportunities, and in terms of any street entertainment that is very much a wait and see scenario like I had said in my original point. It isn't hard to see that so far this is lacking compared to Potter and people have the right to feel disappointed about it. I am looking forward to this personally but can see it's flaws much like I try to do with every development, as blindly saying that things are "good enough" doesn't help a park to build on things and make them even more incredible.

to me that makes it even better
we constantly criticize theme parks for just caring about making money
heck one of the criticisms of DA was too many shops so now we have a place to explore and not just buy stuff

 

[twebber55]

I remember an article from years ago (not long after Avatars was announced), where it's explained Disney saw the success of Potter, said, "We need a Potter," struck a deal with Cameron and announced Avatar. That's why I say we "know" that.

You can even see it in the timeline of events.

December 18, 2009 - Avatar opens
June 18, 2010 - Hogsmeade opens
September 17, 2011 - Avatar deal is signed and announced on the 20th.

So, yes, Avatar was in response to the success of Potter. The story goes, after Disney saw Universal's yearly profits do what they did, they wanted some of that action. They didn't even START negotiations for Avatar until 2011, after Potter's success was assured. And while Avatar isn't meant to save the resort, we're damn sure it's meant to "save" Animal Kingdom. Everything else the park is getting (dining, retail, shows) is in support of Avatar.

i highly doubt a disney rep actually mentioned HP
Potter fans should take Avatar being like HP as a compliment

 

[Nico]

The only merch I keep coming back to is "bioluminescent" I.e. Light up merch. Anyone who has been to Disney on ice or a nighttime parade in MK knows these things sell like hot cakes.

 

[Nick]

I think the building of more hotels is more about getting enough of the kinds of rooms people want. Right now they have thousands of glorified motel rooms, and people are looking for more suites. So many of the rooms they have are quite small compared to what's available off property now (often for less money). Look at the demand at Cabana Bay...

True. Except one of the front-runners for a hotel i've been hearing about is a Star Wars Hotel. Of course those could easily be (most likely, actually) suites but it certainly won't be upscale.

what deserves a land? whats the requirements? does toy story deserve a land, mysterious island? New Orleans square? Carsland? Jurassic Park?
and if its a non IP what do you do about that?

Original lands are unfair to compare because they are broad enough to fit many type of attractions. Pandora can only fit Avatar attractions.

And Toy Story most certainly doesn't deserve a land.

 

[Nick]

Rather than rehashing whether this was a good idea or not, let's recognize it's opening in a few months. Bigger question becomes, what's Plan B? After the initial lifestyler rush, when what little business it does cannibalizes diners from EPCOT and souvenir-shoppers from MK, how do you fix it? It strikes me as too big to fail. Yet a third ride seems out of the question, a show would be almost impossible to do without audiences laughing. Do they start offering DAK as a de facto free ticket if you pay to see MK/EPCOT/Star Wars? Build another new land and sort of let this rot with minimal staffing? Is there a way out if this doesn't work?

I don't think this is going to "fail" from an enjoyment/guest POV. Will they have to eat some money? Probably. There are plans for DAK to get another big addition for the50th though, as is the case with every WDW park. And DHS' 50th addition is not thought of as SWL.

 

[Joel]

Anecdotal story on the 'short commercial' we've been debating......Background. My GF loves Universal & Disney (not a pixie duster though), but unlike me, she pays no attention to any theme park news. She had no idea about Pandora at AK... While watching Modern Family tonight, one of the real short Pandora commercials popped up. I asked her about her thoughts. She said, "Wow. That's amazing and beautiful. I want to see that". Just saying.

Same deal here.

 

[twebber55]

True. Except one of the front-runners for a hotel i've been hearing about is a Star Wars Hotel. Of course those could easily be (most likely, actually) suites but it certainly won't be upscale.


Original lands are unfair to compare because they are broad enough to fit many type of attractions. Pandora can only fit Avatar attractions.

And Toy Story most certainly doesn't deserve a land.

i guess thats my point
whats the difference in IP from carsland to Toy Story? to me its simple one can easily fit into a theme park environment better than the other. I feel the same way comparing HP to Star wars. HP just fits better in a theme park environment than Star wars does and i dont think its close
deserves a land to me should be more about is a land adaptable to a theme park environment

 

[Nick]

i guess thats my point
whats the difference in IP from carsland to Toy Story? to me its simple one can easily fit into a theme park environment better than the other. I feel the same way comparing HP to Star wars. HP just fits better in a theme park environment than Star wars does and i dont think its close
deserves a land to me should be more about is a land adaptable to a theme park environment

Carsland is questionable, but it has beautiful scenery, merch flies off the shelf and has unique food options.

Toy Story Land is pretty much a carnival in all iterations. The only thing it has going for it is merch.

It's pretty simple. Potter started a bad trend as now we have a war of IP Lands and very few IPs can carry a full land by itself. I've been very optimistic about Avatar throughout this thread so i'm not sure why you're attacking me for giving one small criticism.

 

[Owen]

to me that makes it even better
we constantly criticize theme parks for just caring about making money
heck one of the criticisms of DA was too many shops so now we have a place to explore and not just buy stuff

As I said previously I wasn't necessarily referring to just shops, but permanent interactive activities like we see with Olivanders as well. Remember the idea is the na'vi are showing us this new world and hypothetically if I were a Na'vi I would want humans to experience a range of smaller activities as well as your Banshee flight lessons. I suppose I am saying the execution of Potter was superior to what we are currently seeing with Avatar. Once again, I think we really need to wait to see what pop-up activities come to the area as right now from what we have seen there really doesn't seem all that much to really explore and look around which is really going to be the case for any new development, as I am of the believe that any IP (or at least most) can be executed well if it is done effectively to the story, which is something I am worried about with Pandora but we will see how it finally comes together.

Really, I suggest that we allow people to make their comparisons and not act as though they're opinions are any less valid because the areas aren't being used for the same purpose for the park itself and move on from this!

I must admit initially I wasn't too bothered by this but more recently, and especially with the new commercials, I am getting quite excited to see whats inside the River Journey's building...

 

[twebber55]

Carsland is questionable, but it has beautiful scenery, merch flies off the shelf and has unique food options.

Toy Story Land is pretty much a carnival in all iterations. The only thing it has going for it is merch.

It's pretty simple.

yet you never answered my question about what qualifies a land to be a land
Carsland is better even though it is a lesser IP than TSL because it adapts well to a theme park setting
thats why i think Pandora will be an incredible success, the fact that its the highest grossing film and the highest grossing home market movie of all time is irrelevant

 

[twebber55]

As I said previously I wasn't necessarily referring to just shops, but permanent interactive activities like we see with Olivanders as well. Remember the idea is the na'vi are showing us this new world and hypothetically if I were a Na'vi I would want humans to experience a range of smaller activities as well as your Banshee flight lessons. I suppose I am saying the execution of Potter was superior to what we are currently seeing with Avatar. Once again, I think we really need to wait to see what pop-up activities come to the area as right now from what we have seen there really doesn't seem all that much to really explore and look around which is really going to be the case for any new development, as I am of the believe that any IP (or at least most) can be executed well if it is done effectively to the story, which is something I am worried about with Pandora but we will see how it finally comes together.

Really, I suggest that we allow people to make their comparisons and not act as though they're opinions are any less valid because the areas aren't being used for the same purpose for the park itself and move on from this!

I must admit initially I wasn't too bothered by this but more recently, and especially with the new commercials, I am getting quite excited to see whats inside the River Journey's building...

i would gladly quit discussing this and move on to the actual merits of the land:clap:

 

[Nick]

yet you never answered my question about what qualifies a land to be a land
Carsland is better even though it is a lesser IP than TSL because it adapts well to a theme park setting
thats why i think Pandora will be an incredible success, the fact that its the highest grossing film and the highest grossing home market movie of all time is irrelevant

Yes, Avatar, like Carsland, adapts great to a theme park land.

Except it's missing two of the key things that Carsland has that makes it successful: Merch that will fly off the shelf and (at least so far) any semblance of unique foods.

I'm done with this pointless conversation now. I've already said many times that i'm looking forward to the land but you keep defending it like i'm vilifying it.