Westworld

[Teebin]

Frig, they are pushing the heavy on this sucker.

 

[Teebin]

Are they jumping the shark?

 

[Teebin]

Foundation... and I'm on vacation. Deep hole.

 

[Teebin]

That restaurant scene is creepy. What in hell is going on. The Bernard theory might be true after all.

 

[Teebin]

Carmen? Frig me. How comically audatious.

 

[Teebin]

And, until next week, there we have it.

 

[DK745]

Well that ending was certainly a big moment. I would say they're moving too fast but considering I have no idea where this is going or what the endgame is, that's really hard to say.

 

[sjago13]

That restaurant scene is creepy. What in hell is going on. The Bernard theory might be true after all.

Bernard being a host? Until they give e a reason to not believe it I think he is. Ford has this sense of ownership over him.

Spoiler

After watching this episode idk how to feel about the will/MIB idea. She has the gun and is obviously having the flashbacks with Will but they are still filming it in an ambiguous enough way that they can go either way with it. So far the only concrete thing that makes me believe Will is in an earlier timeline is the logo. At this point if will is the MiB there won't be a payoff for me because if that is where this is going they are dragging their feet with it and being too cute with the editing.

 

[Andysol]

Lots of answers this episode.

As for different timelines- I don't see it anymore- at all. I mean, it's pretty dead in the water- so I have no clue why the different logos...

Spoiler

When the gun was next to her, I thought "ok- intentional deception but can be explained"

But when they mention fords new storyline and Delores going off story in the same sentence. They cut to Abby going off story in the Mexican town finding out about the maze and hearing voices with William in the same scene. At the same time another host comes and tries to bring her back home but she says her dad is dead and has that realization. I simply don't see how it can be different timelines anymore unless someone saw something I didn't. The voices, maze, and new storyline is simply too coincidental. William appears to be in the same timeline as fords new story and Delores hearing voices and looking for the maze which is the same timeline as MIB- who we now know is a real person and not a host

 

[Teebin]

As ever, Andy and sjago are talking about three stories (height) above my head. I enjoy it, but I don't understand it.

 

[Andysol]

Spoiler

Upon further thought- namely, the different logos- I'm trying hard to decipher how it could still be two storylines. And it's a simple one- what if Delores has done this before?
What if she deviated from her path before? What if she tried to chase down the maze before- which is how the man in black (now William) found out about it in the first place? What if that deviation is what sparked the "critical failure" they had 30 years ago?

Another thing to look out for- Delores had some flashbacks of a terrible event that happened at a church sometime in her past (who knows how far in her past). That same church steeple is the same church steeple that we see totally buried in the sand regarding Ford's new storyline we saw in episode 3 (where he "tamed" the snake"). We also saw that ford will demolish and change anything on a whim- like the hotel/restaurant he is at currently stating "I'm not nostalgic". So now we know universal owns Westworld, and not Disney. Plus construction seems to move much faster.

Last nugget/takeaway- the man in black is very devil like. The hosts are currently in a loop of ignorance, much like Adam and Eve. They didn't know evil existed, much as the hosts don't. The devil "set them free" by giving them the knowledge of evil and all the perils that came with that- death, consequence, etc. It sounds like the man in black wants the same thing- to "free" them. He, in fact, says they aren't responsible for any of their decisions and he wants to change that. Much like the devil, MIB wants to be God and thinks he knows better by giving the hosts, much like Adam and Eve, sentience/knowledge/understanding.

On a complete detour- if any of you haven't watched The Leftovers, you are missing out on the best show on right now (IMO).
Season 1 is solid- but even if you don't like it or just think it's "ok"- make it to season 2, which is the best season of television I believe I've ever seen.

 

[Cschaaf]

I'll have to watch this one again, it was very disjointed. The weakest episode so far, but that's not to say that it wasn't still better than most other things on TV.

How much is Stubbs in charge of? It seems like any real-time decisions are funneled up through him. Then it seems like he makes decisions with little to no information.

Spoiler

Odd that they spent three episodes trying to blur the MiBs status - human or host - only to rip the shroud off with a bad, throw away, scene. "Look! He's a good guy!" "Not in here, I'm not!"

I guess that was a way to clear up one side of his story, but blur the other - Good guy with bad motives? Good guy with bad motives? Bad guy with good motives? Bad guy with bad motives?

I'm still not seeing Bernard as a Host, but they've clearly set that up that story line to be ambiguous.

The whole restaurant scene seemed way out of character for the show. So far, this is a show that has used subtlety, like the hosts that were seen using shovels and picks - then this scene brings in the largest machine ever that shows up at exactly the right time in the dialog. Why did Ford have 'servants' out there using picks and shovels when he's got a giant earth mover in his arsenal?

I still don't understand what needs spoiler tags and what doesn't.

 

[Andysol]

Last rambling (I swear). When Bernard is talking to Delores-in her "dream"- then in the next scene, she is "waking up" where William is- that can't be linear. They'd have to remove her, have a conversation, then put her back without William or anyone noticing? That either means several of the "interviews" aren't linear, or HBO is having massive plot holes.

This is like inception. So many levels your head can't even wrap around it all. The flashbacks/flash forwards/moving timelines, I like, as it gets you thinking. But you can have too much of a good thing...

 

[Teebin]

I still don't understand what needs spoiler tags and what doesn't.

Note that I said there was a creepy restaurant scene which doesn't tell anyone anything. If you want to comment on why it was creepy and what you think it is about, then that is a spoiler.

 

[Teebin]

Example, I spent half the restaurant scene wondering if that was real bougainvillea. I missed half of what Hopkins said.

 

[LieutLaww]

Is it possible that the conversations Bernard is having with Delores are actually remote directly into her brain, this is perhaps why no one seems to notice here missing, Ops would notice pretty much straight away if she wasn't where she was supposed to be ?

 

[sjago13]

Spoiler

Upon further thought- namely, the different logos- I'm trying hard to decipher how it could still be two storylines. And it's a simple one- what if Delores has done this before?
What if she deviated from her path before? What if she tried to chase down the maze before- which is how the man in black (now William) found out about it in the first place? What if that deviation is what sparked the "critical failure" they had 30 years ago?

Another thing to look out for- Delores had some flashbacks of a terrible event that happened at a church sometime in her past (who knows how far in her past). That same church steeple is the same church steeple that we see totally buried in the sand regarding Ford's new storyline we saw in episode 3 (where he "tamed" the snake"). We also saw that ford will demolish and change anything on a whim- like the hotel/restaurant he is at currently stating "I'm not nostalgic". So now we know universal owns Westworld, and not Disney. Plus construction seems to move much faster.

Last nugget/takeaway- the man in black is very devil like. The hosts are currently in a loop of ignorance, much like Adam and Eve. They didn't know evil existed, much as the hosts don't. The devil "set them free" by giving them the knowledge of evil and all the perils that came with that- death, consequence, etc. It sounds like the man in black wants the same thing- to "free" them. He, in fact, says they aren't responsible for any of their decisions and he wants to change that. Much like the devil, MIB wants to be God and thinks he knows better by giving the hosts, much like Adam and Eve, sentience/knowledge/understanding.

On a complete detour- if any of you haven't watched The Leftovers, you are missing out on the best show on right now (IMO).
Season 1 is solid- but even if you don't like it or just think it's "ok"- make it to season 2, which is the best season of television I believe I've ever seen.

Spoiler

Basically if Delores did the gun thing before and she buried it to find it again later. Thats the only way the william/mib thing could possibly work but even then they have muddied it so much that I' done trying to guess.

 

[Teebin]

Yeah, they need to deliver a wee bit of clarity soon or else it will become tiresome.

 

[sjago13]

So I just noticed something. I went back to the end of episode 3 to compare the gun she has at the beginning of 4. I just realized the gun she shoots the guy with is his gun, not the one she had earlier/hid. After she pulls the gun he goes for his gun that is strapped to his right leg and then comments that she has learned a few tricks. Maybe I am reading too much into it and he is just checking that his gun is there and commenting on how clever it is for her to hide a gun? But if he had his gun then why not pull it on her? But the gun she wakes up with when with Will is shiny and clean, unlike the one she dug up. So that would make you think the Will stuff is an earlier timeline but not if that gun was the bandit's gun. That would make Will contemporary since it was the new father that was killed.

 

[Andysol]

So I just noticed something. I went back to the end of episode 3 to compare the gun she has at the beginning of 4. I just realized the gun she shoots the guy with is his gun, not the one she had earlier/hid. After she pulls the gun he goes for his gun that is strapped to his right leg and then comments that she has learned a few tricks. Maybe I am reading too much into it and he is just checking that his gun is there and commenting on how clever it is for her to hide a gun? But if he had his gun then why not pull it on her? But the gun she wakes up with when with Will is shiny and clean, unlike the one she dug up. So that would make you think the Will stuff is an earlier timeline but not if that gun was the bandit's gun. That would make Will contemporary since it was the new father that was killed.

Trying to follow you here. So the gun she DID use to kill the bandit was different than the one she woke up next to the "following morning" or it was the same?

A) Gun dug up
B) Gun in Nightstand
C) Gun used to kill Bandit
D) Gun woke up next to with Will

Curious which ones are the same/different- or if theyre all the same. Heck, if they were all the same, that wouldn't surprise me, as it would make sense with different or same time lines. The difference is the cleanliness/age, I would assume.