Universal's New Park/Site B Blue Sky Thread

[Mike S]

I’d say Nintendo is “two lands” since from what we’ve seen Yoshi will be heavily integrated with the rest of Mario and DK is the one that’s more separate.

 

[truejonas]

I don’t know why I keep reading on other sites if true still that their will be 4 themed lands but very large. Is their not enough interest to expand the themed lands number to 6 or 7?

Just don't expect a full-day park out of the gate. This park will be on a smaller scale than Beijing phase 1, as an example.

I've never been fortunate to watch a full blown park like this - is it normal to have some areas open later to help bring some cash flow in while the project is still ongoing?
I would not be surprised if there are multiple expansion areas built in to give some wiggle room.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I've never been fortunate to watch a full blown park like this - is it normal to have some areas open later to help bring some cash flow in while the project is still ongoing?
I would not be surprised if there are multiple expansion areas built in to give some wiggle room.

Animal Kingdom opened most of Asia a year later and had plans for Beastley Kingdomme to open later (now Pandora). MK opened with Tomorrowland in an unfinished state. Epcot was in phases. Etc.

 

[zg44]

I've never been fortunate to watch a full blown park like this - is it normal to have some areas open later to help bring some cash flow in while the project is still ongoing?
I would not be surprised if there are multiple expansion areas built in to give some wiggle room.

Things are different in this day and age.

When you're talking about a new Universal (or Disney) park, you're talking about a new enterprise that's one small part of a giant conglomerate. That's sort of why they don't really operate as if they need these parks to be successes in day 1.

Cash flow of the new park is not an important consideration; the most important consideration is how they can build it out to be a long-term success. The best example of this is HK Disneyland; that lost money for 7 years until it started producing profits.


This new Universal park may not turn a profit for at least a year or two; but Comcast doesn't care. Comcast is a company that in 2019 will produce over $100 billion in annual revenue and at least $30 billion in annual profit.

 

[Alicia]

I've never been fortunate to watch a full blown park like this - is it normal to have some areas open later to help bring some cash flow in while the project is still ongoing?
I would not be surprised if there are multiple expansion areas built in to give some wiggle room.

Very normal. Of course, like Joe said, the bad thing about doing it like that is that planned expansions sometimes never happen. In addition to Beastly Kingdom, Disney MGM was going to have a Roger Rabbit themed land that was put off a couple years, only to be canceled when the rights owners couldn't agree on who owned the characters.

I like the way Islands of Adventure did it. The major E-tickets and all lands were open at the start, but over the next few years they added more of the kid-friendly offerings and C-tickets, like Flying Unicorn, Storm Force Acceletron and High in the Sky Seuss Trolley.

Just a hunch, but I bet a Kung Fu Panda area/ride will be saved as a future expansion for the new park, (if rumors of Beijing having exclusive rights to the attraction are true that is).

 

[JungleSkip]

Very normal. Of course, like Joe said, the bad thing about doing it like that is that planned expansions sometimes never happen. In addition to Beastly Kingdom, Disney MGM was going to have a Roger Rabbit themed land that was put off a couple years, only to be canceled when the rights owners couldn't agree on who owned the characters.

I like the way Islands of Adventure did it. The major E-tickets and all lands were open at the start, but over the next few years they added more of the kid-friendly offerings and C-tickets, like Flying Unicorn, Storm Force Acceletron and High in the Sky Seuss Trolley.

Just a hunch, but I bet a Kung Fu Panda area/ride will be saved as a future expansion for the new park, (if rumors of Beijing having exclusive rights to the attraction are true that is).

Yea. I'm willing to bet the park will have expansion areas set aside for DreamWorks, Nintendo, and maybe next to Monster Land.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Yea. I'm willing to bet the park will have expansion areas set aside for DreamWorks, Nintendo, and maybe next to Monster Land.

I don’t think it’ll open like DAK or DHS as a half day park.

 

[Alicia]

Jim now conceding a 2022 opening is more likely, but somehow still competing with WDW's 50th, (since they'll be celebrating it for 18 months anyway).



I'm still thinking 2023 personally.

 

[Mad Dog]

Jim now conceding a 2022 opening is more likely, but somehow still competing with WDW's 50th, (since they'll be celebrating it for 18 months anyway).



I'm still thinking 2023 personally.

I'm sticking with my earlier prediction of late 2022/early 2023.

 

[JungleSkip]

I don’t think it’ll open like DAK or DHS as a half day park.

Depends what you consider a "Half Day Park". Personally I think every park in Orlando aside from MK is a "half day park". I see this one opening in similar fashion to IOA.

Jim now conceding a 2022 opening is more likely, but somehow still competing with WDW's 50th, (since they'll be celebrating it for 18 months anyway).



I'm still thinking 2023 personally.

My guess is Uni's internal timeline is shooting for a late 2022 opening, but it will slip to mid 2023

 

[RFRees]

1)

• What's the definition of "full day"?
• Is "full day" just determined on the number of hours you spend in the park, or must a "full day" theme park be a certain size with a certain number of attractions? I lean toward the first definition (regarding number of hours you'll expect to spend in the park).
• What I'm getting at is, even if the new park had fewer attractions at its opening, in the first few years the crowds might be insane, thus increasing the lines, thus pushing it to "full day."

2)

• In addition, as years go on, Universal will likely only add attractions after opening and will not close any existing rides until many years later.

So whatever number it starts off with, my theory is 1) you'll be spending a full day there due to long lines, and 2) Uni will add additional attractions, keeping it a "full day" experience.

 

[Magic-Man]

Let's look at it this way:

We expect the four worlds to be -

A World of Play (Nintendo)
A World of Dreams (DreamWorks)
A World of Magic (Fantastic Beasts)
A World of Monsters (Classic Monsters)

Nintendo, we know, includes at least 2 lands (Mushroom Kingdom and Donkey Kong Jungle), that may become 3 with Yoshi's Island. Regardless, that includes three rides and at least one play area.

DreamWorks will likely have at least 3 lands, and maybe 4. Each land will likely have at least one ride (maybe two in a couple). At least one land will include some sort of play area.

Right there, we can assume seven to ten rides/attractions.

Magic and Monsters I expect to have at least two lands each (somehow), with one to three rides/attractions in each. Minimum expectation, we have 12 rides/attractions. That's a full day park. Even LOW expectations of 10 rides is a full day. Hopeful expectations puts an average of four major attractions a world, so 16.

That feels... Accurate.

Y'all are forgetting that the hub will probably have attractions as well. So the attraction count is probably around 18 to 21.

 

[Legacy]

1)

• What's the definition of "full day"?
• Is "full day" just determined on the number of hours you spend in the park, or must a "full day" theme park be a certain size with a certain number of attractions? I lean toward the first definition (regarding number of hours you'll expect to spend in the park).
• What I'm getting at is, even if the new park had fewer attractions at its opening, in the first few years the crowds might be insane, thus increasing the lines, thus pushing it to "full day."

2)

• In addition, as years go on, Universal will likely only add attractions after opening and will not close any existing rides until many years later.

So whatever number it starts off with, my theory is 1) you'll be spending a full day there due to long lines, and 2) Uni will add additional attractions, keeping it a "full day" experience.

I'd argue it this way:

Let's say each attraction AVERAGES a total of 30 minutes (knowing some will be a lot longer, some will be a lot shorter, depending on waits). This doesn't count for Express, which is a different calculation all together. Anticipate 45 minutes each for lunch and dinner. Then, add an additional 90 minutes for shopping, bathroom breaks, and traveling.

The park is a 9 am opening. Will argue there's 12 attractions (a safe bet, I think). That takes you to 3 pm (2 an hour). The "shopping buffer" moves that day to 4:30. Two meals takes it to 6 pm. That's a full "Universal Day."

Now, let's say the park is crowded and the average attraction time takes 45 minutes instead. That adds 3 hours to the total time spent in the park, to 9 pm. That's a full-day park.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

1)

• What's the definition of "full day"?
• Is "full day" just determined on the number of hours you spend in the park, or must a "full day" theme park be a certain size with a certain number of attractions? I lean toward the first definition (regarding number of hours you'll expect to spend in the park).
• What I'm getting at is, even if the new park had fewer attractions at its opening, in the first few years the crowds might be insane, thus increasing the lines, thus pushing it to "full day."

2)

• In addition, as years go on, Universal will likely only add attractions after opening and will not close any existing rides until many years later.

So whatever number it starts off with, my theory is 1) you'll be spending a full day there due to long lines, and 2) Uni will add additional attractions, keeping it a "full day" experience.

“Half day park” is an euphemism for universal or Disney being cheap or not showing confidence.

 

[RFRees]

I'd argue it this way:

Let's say each attraction AVERAGES a total of 30 minutes (knowing some will be a lot longer, some will be a lot shorter, depending on waits). This doesn't count for Express, which is a different calculation all together. Anticipate 45 minutes each for lunch and dinner. Then, add an additional 90 minutes for shopping, bathroom breaks, and traveling.

The park is a 9 am opening. Will argue there's 12 attractions (a safe bet, I think). That takes you to 3 pm (2 an hour). The "shopping buffer" moves that day to 4:30. Two meals takes it to 6 pm. That's a full "Universal Day."

Now, let's say the park is crowded and the average attraction time takes 45 minutes instead. That adds 3 hours to the total time spent in the park, to 9 pm. That's a full-day park.

I don't disagree but I guess I'm not understanding how it related to my main point: Worlds will be a full day park due lines being longer (than IOA/Studios), even if the opening day number of attractions is fewer than other parks. (Were you strictly trying to define "Full Day" vs a "Universal Day"?)

 

[truejonas]

Assuming no changes to the current benefits, I am most definitely staying in one of the premier hotels for that free Express Pass once this thing opens.

 

[Imperius]

Maybe this park won’t have Express at first. Trial period. Highly doubtful due to the losing of revenue, but would be nice for a park to try the one express/fastpass option to see how lines are.

 

[natespf]

Full/half-day park is subjective. I believe it'd be a complete experience with room for improvement. Be it unused space or if there's some sort of filler they shouldn't feel like holes in the park. Hopefully they've learned to keep these expansion areas as flexible as possible so they don't run into those situations of it being set-up for a particular attraction that falls thru and never happens.

 

[Alicia]

When I visited USF for the first time Back to the Future wasn’t open yet. It had a big countdown sign counting down to next year. Man did that bum me out. Plus, JAWS had already closed from troubles.

We still had a great full day though. Luckily there were great shows like Hitchcock and things to look at like The Bomeyard to kill time.

 

[Scott W.]

Not sure what you guys are talking about as IOA being generic. I’ve always thought it was a fairly unique name... probably the most unique I can think of outside of Epcot.

Jim now conceding a 2022 opening is more likely, but somehow still competing with WDW's 50th, (since they'll be celebrating it for 18 months anyway).



I'm still thinking 2023 personally.

I think 2022 is totally feasible but with the way Universal have been dragging their feet recently, I’d put my money on 2023.

At this stage, I’m not really caring as long as the park is the best it can be.