Universal's New Park/Site B Blue Sky Thread

[truejonas]

Maybe this park won’t have Express at first. Trial period.

Breaking my heart. At the same time, if there's constant movement through an hour long wait (like the first time I hit FJ), at least you're not stuck in one place while Express skips onboard.

 

[Orlandofan12]

Expect the opening day line up to be comparable to IOA's opening. With expansion sites already planned into the design.

And just to be clear, it'll be more substantial than DAK or DHS's opening day. But all of the Orlando parks have had years to expand, naturally this one will be the smallest when it opens.

 

[Scott W.]

Maybe this park won’t have Express at first. Trial period. Highly doubtful due to the losing of revenue, but would be nice for a park to try the one express/fastpass option to see how lines are.

This raises an interesting point.

I’m fully expecting a high end hotel to open with the parks and you would assume that would come with Express Pass. Obviously that would be valid at the current resort but it kind of devalues the new hotel if Express Pass won’t be used in the new park.

 

[Imperius]

This raises an interesting point.

I’m fully expecting a high end hotel to open with the parks and you would assume that would come with Express Pass. Obviously that would be valid at the current resort but it kind of devalues the new hotel if Express Pass won’t be used in the new park.

I mean I’m sure this park will have Express. Just wishful thinking.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Expect the opening day line up to be comparable to IOA's opening. With expansion sites already planned into the design.

And just to be clear, it'll be more substantial than DAK or DHS's opening day. But all of the Orlando parks have had years to expand, naturally this one will be the smallest when it opens.

"Comparable to IoA" still puts it larger than DHS.

 

[Orlandofan12]

"Comparable to IoA" still puts it larger than DHS.

Haha! Jokes aside, DHS is gonna have an outstanding year next year. 3 groundbreaking E-tickets in one year. It's phenomenal.

2019 in general is going to be the year of Disney. They're firing on all cylinders next year, not just in theme parks.

 

[Magic-Man]

This afternoon I was looking at this area of the infrastructure plans:

View attachment 8550

And it occurred to me that the water supply and sewer pipes show a pretty clear hub and spoke type layout for the new park. I think the pipes should run on the borders between lands, and this makes sense with the shown driveways from the perimeter road to be access roads between each area. I've more clearly marked the perimeter road(red) and the water pipes(blues):

View attachment 8551

The presumed entrance is in orange, and I've numbered the different sectors in case everyone wants to start speculating on what might go where within the park. An intriguing question is what's going on in the northern sections labeled 5 and 6, because the plans depict very little here. Some possibilities:
- A massive Dreamworks or Nintendo land
- A large (1000+? room) hotel
- They only have half of the park designed so the layout here is still forthcoming

Some more thoughts on this: Square 5 is clearly a hotel, as a road (Resort Rd from the Kirkman Extension plans) leads directly to it. I have a feeling that squares 1, 2, and 3 are for Dreamworks. They're too small to be a full land, and I doubt Nintendo takes over those spots. Square 4 is probably Fantastic Beasts. Square 7 is either Nintendo or Monsters, probably Monsters. Square 6 is an expansion pad and Nintendo/Monsters. There's some kind of water feature in the middle, shown by the curves of the water lines.

Let's look at it this way:

We expect the four worlds to be -

A World of Play (Nintendo)
A World of Dreams (DreamWorks)
A World of Magic (Fantastic Beasts)
A World of Monsters (Classic Monsters)

Nintendo, we know, includes at least 2 lands (Mushroom Kingdom and Donkey Kong Jungle), that may become 3 with Yoshi's Island. Regardless, that includes three rides and at least one play area.

DreamWorks will likely have at least 3 lands, and maybe 4. Each land will likely have at least one ride (maybe two in a couple). At least one land will include some sort of play area.

Right there, we can assume seven to ten rides/attractions.

Magic and Monsters I expect to have at least two lands each (somehow), with one to three rides/attractions in each. Minimum expectation, we have 12 rides/attractions. That's a full day park. Even LOW expectations of 10 rides is a full day. Hopeful expectations puts an average of four major attractions a world, so 16.

That feels... Accurate.

10 rides would be a major disappointment, considering that at least two of those are flats. In terms of rides, I think it goes like this:

1. Nintendo: 4 rides (Mario Kart, Yoshi, Donkey Kong 2.0, Luigi's Mansion/Galaxy/Odyssey/second DK ride).
2. DreamWorks: 5/6 rides (Shrek, HTTYD, Trolls, new DreamWorks IP, a flat, maybe KFP).
3. Monsters: 3/4 rides (two rides for the Classic Monsters, JW Gyrosphere, MAYBE Godzilla).
4. Fantastic Beasts: 2 rides

The bare minimum of rides should be 14, not including anything in the hub.

If Nintendo and Dreamworks each have 3 major rides and Fantastic Beasts and Classic Monsters each have 2, that gives 10 large attractions, and adding 1-2 small(kids?) rides or shows per world makes it a full day park, or at least one that is comparable to IOA.

Looking back to my map at the top of the page, I'm wondering if it could really be as simple as:
Fantastic Beasts - Area 2 (8 acres)
Classic Monsters - Area 3 (8 acres)
Dreamworks - Area 4 (14 acres)
Nintendo - Area 7 (14 acres)

That park would hardly be 70 acres total, but the math seems like it could work as long as there are no sprawling rides like JRPA or the potter coaster, and especially so if Universal is fully embracing multilevel lands like Nintendo was/is planned to be.

Nintendo will not be 14 acres, but Monsters will probably be. DreamWorks has a chance to go over 20 acres (depending on the sprawl of lands/rides). Fantastic Beasts is a total wild card.

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Also, for those of you worried about Fantastic Beasts, it still made close to 600 million at the box office. That's more than Kong: Skull Island, Godzilla (2014), Kung Fu Panda 3, HTTYD 1, and Ready Player One. Given, it should have made more (it's a sequel), but that's still a ton of money.

 

[Brian G.]

Also, for those of you worried about Fantastic Beasts, it still made close to 600 million at the box office. That's more than Kong: Skull Island, Godzilla (2014), Kung Fu Panda 3, HTTYD 1, and Ready Player One. Given, it should have made more (it's a sequel), but that's still a ton of money.

Amazing Spider-Man 2 made close to $700 mil worldwide and the studio considered it a failure in the overall scheme of things.

FB has also made $155 mil domestically, which is pretty bad.

I bet there are discussions going on about it now regarding the future, both from a Studios and Theme Park perspective.

 

[Magic-Man]

Amazing Spider-Man 2 made close to $700 mil worldwide and the studio considered it a failure in the overall scheme of things.

It's also made $155 mil domestically, which is pretty bad.

I bet there are discussions going on about it now regarding the future, both from a Studios and Theme Park perspective.

It's probably too late to replace it at this stage, unless they want to trade it for another Warner Bro's IP. I doubt we see more regular Potter. They won't get LOTR or Star Trek. Please no Hello Kitty. DC Comics is a dim possibility, although it's still out there. Maybe an original world?

 

[JoeCamel]

“Half day park” is an euphemism for universal or Disney being cheap or not showing confidence.

That is how I took your comment.
I think the Universal/Comcast brand is too valuable today to have any taint by opening less than a full park. They took a bunch of heat for calling VB a gate and if this is less than incredible evoking "wows" all around it will reflect poorly on their ability to bring entertainment to the masses.

 

[Happytycho]

@LintemuthStudios I'm responding to your post in sections.

Some more thoughts on this: Square 5 is clearly a hotel, as a road (Resort Rd from the Kirkman Extension plans) leads directly to it. I have a feeling that squares 1, 2, and 3 are for Dreamworks. They're too small to be a full land, and I doubt Nintendo takes over those spots. Square 4 is probably Fantastic Beasts. Square 7 is either Nintendo or Monsters, probably Monsters. Square 6 is an expansion pad and Nintendo/Monsters. There's some kind of water feature in the middle, shown by the curves of the water lines.

A closer look at the plans shows that the pipes north of area 4 don't include a storm sewer line, which suggests no long access road and has me wondering if Dreamworks could take all of 4 plus the southern part of 5 up to the road, which would give a land closer to 17-18 acres. Then they could just continue the "Resort Rd" around the SW side of the pond and build a hotel in the northern portion of area 6.

10 rides would be a major disappointment, considering that at least two of those are flats. In terms of rides, I think it goes like this:

1. Nintendo: 4 rides (Mario Kart, Yoshi, Donkey Kong 2.0, Luigi's Mansion/Galaxy/Odyssey/second DK ride).
2. DreamWorks: 5/6 rides (Shrek, HTTYD, Trolls, new DreamWorks IP, a flat, maybe KFP).
3. Monsters: 3/4 rides (two rides for the Classic Monsters, JW Gyrosphere, MAYBE Godzilla).
4. Fantastic Beasts: 2 rides

The bare minimum of rides should be 14, not including anything in the hub.

I think a reasonable opening day would be 10 major rides (C-E ticket type), plus few basic flats for kids, a couple of play areas, and shows.

Nintendo will not be 14 acres, but Monsters will probably be. DreamWorks has a chance to go over 20 acres (depending on the sprawl of lands/rides). Fantastic Beasts is a total wild card.

Those acreages are the approximate sizes of the respective sectors on my map, not the amount of space I think each world is worthy of.

My personal speculation is that this park could be unlike most previous in effective use of land - I don't think it will have all the large one-off environments that IOA has. I'm still worried that they will be hurting for land to build out a full resort, so I can easily see Comcast deciding to squish in the park to make more space for hotels.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the original Kidzone Nintendo plans were around 6 acres, so if the other worlds are designed similarly I could see them fitting in the 8 and 14 acre areas.

EDIT: I was wrong about the size, see post below.

 

[Magic-Man]

@LintemuthStudios Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the original Kidzone Nintendo plans were around 6 acres, so if the other worlds are designed similarly I could see them fitting in the 8 and 14 acre areas.

I believe SNW Kidzone was 9 acres in total.

 

[Happytycho]

I believe SNW Kidzone was 9 acres in total.

Yep you are correct it was closer to 9 acres so the 8 acre areas could be somewhat on the small side if used individually.

 

[Scott W.]

Haha! Jokes aside, DHS is gonna have an outstanding year next year. 3 groundbreaking E-tickets in one year. It's phenomenal.

2019 in general is going to be the year of Disney. They're firing on all cylinders next year, not just in theme parks.

You mean 2020 for the theme parks? Orlando anyway.

 

[Orlandofan12]

The bare minimum of rides should be 14, not including anything in the hub.

9 or so rides give or take would be a decent estimate (with a higher number of total attractions), but of course many would be filler. Nintendo will be the star of the park.

I would not expect the other three "worlds" to have as much substance. Expect Nintendo to be the MSHI of the new park, with the other "worlds" being more akin to Seuss Landing/Toon Lagoon. Although one is likely to have more to it than the remaining two.

I'd like to point out that IOA opened with 9/10 rides depending on if you count Island Skipper Tours, which is the biggest opening line up of any Orlando park outside of MK:

Doctor Doom's Fearfall

The Amazing Adventures of Spider-Man

Popeye & Bluto's Bilge Rat Barges

Dudley Do-Right's Ripsaw Falls

Jurassic Park River Adventure

Caro-Seuss-el

The Cat in the Hat

Incredible Hulk Coaster

Dueling Dragons
Island Skipper Tours

You mean 2020 for the theme parks? Orlando anyway.

2020 will see Ratatouille. 2019 will see Galaxy's Edge and MMRR. Last I heard Galaxy's Edge is aiming for an October opening, though it could easily slip to November.

 

[belloq87]

I think 10 "big" rides, with a handful of flats/smaller rides, plus a couple of substantial (D-ticket level) shows for a grand total of 15 - 20 attractions would be acceptable.

Anything less that that, though, would be pretty disappointing, I think. I am not a fan of intentionally holding things off for expansions, because there's no guarantee those expansions will ever happen, much less happen in a timely fashion.

Set expansion pads aside, sure, but build out a full park for day one.

 

[bob albert]

I don't think almost any park is going to open at what I would consider a "full" park these days. They are more concerned with selling big tickets and multi day experiences than quantity and then counting on crowds to fill up the time.

Studios is and Islands is close. Animal kingdom would be if people valued the animals more. Hollywood studios isn't going to have the capacity to have value as a full day park. Epcot i think gets it for world showcase but you may spend more. MK is the clear winner but has none of the top rides.

 

[Orlandofan12]

I think 10 "big" rides, with a handful of flats/smaller rides, plus a couple of substantial (D-ticket level) shows for a grand total of 15 - 20 attractions would be acceptable.

Anything less that that, though, would be pretty disappointing, I think. I am not a fan of intentionally holding things off for expansions, because there's no guarantee those expansions will ever happen, much less happen in a timely fashion.

Set expansion pads aside, sure, but build out a full park for day one.

Oh that hurt.

Uhmmm, I've gotta be frank with you, you're setting yourself up for major disappointment. I would temper expectations. Like a lot.

When I read your thoughts I felt like I got a knife to the heart. That's how big the gulf is.

 

[Legacy]

I think 10 "big" rides, with a handful of flats/smaller rides, plus a couple of substantial (D-ticket level) shows for a grand total of 15 - 20 attractions would be acceptable.

Anything less that that, though, would be pretty disappointing, I think. I am not a fan of intentionally holding things off for expansions, because there's no guarantee those expansions will ever happen, much less happen in a timely fashion.

Set expansion pads aside, sure, but build out a full park for day one.

Oh that hurt.

Uhmmm, I've gotta be frank with you, you're setting yourself up for major disappointment. I would temper expectations. Like a lot.

When I read your thoughts I felt like I got a knife to the heart. That's how big the gulf is.

Islands opened with 14 "attractions" (including 2 shows), plus 3 play areas. It would have been 15 if McBean's worked. Those attractions include Triceratops Encounter and Poseidon's Fury (Dueling Dragons was listed as one). Only 4 of those would be considered "big" E-tickets (Hulk, Spider-Man, Dragons, Jurassic Park).

My theory on 12 total rides/attractions is in line with that line-up. Each world would have a featured E-ticket (Mario Kart, Dragon Riders of Berk, and not sure for Magic or Monsters). Everything else is supplemental.

 

[Orlandofan12]

Islands opened with 14 "attractions" (including 2 shows), plus 3 play areas. It would have been 15 if McBean's worked. Those attractions include Triceratops Encounter and Poseidon's Fury (Dueling Dragons was listed as one). Only 4 of those would be considered "big" E-tickets (Hulk, Spider-Man, Dragons, Jurassic Park).

My theory on 12 total rides/attractions is in line with that line-up. Each world would have a featured E-ticket (Mario Kart, Dragon Riders of Berk, and not sure for Magic or Monsters). Everything else is supplemental.

Yes, 3 to 4 E-tickets is more in line with expectations. I would expect around 9-10 total rides, and around 15 total attractions, in other words pretty much right in line with IOA's opening.