Halloween Horror Nights 23 Speculation
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- Oct 14, 2012
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Yes...just be in the park before it starts and hang out at Finnegans...they'll come around, check your ticket, let you get a headstart on the soundstage houses, and you can easily do every single house before 9 o'clock. Many people have pointed out their personal favorite strategies for hitting all the houses as fast as possible, but it is definitely not only possible, but quite likely if you're in the park before it starts :thumbs:
Even though the rumor has been swirling almost exclusively around USH, I really wish we could give up any of the unofficially official unannounced houses for Insidious.
I posted a pic of the insert a few pages back. Murdy himself confirmed the leak on his twitter telling the "dude in the DVD warehouse" that he shouldn't have messed with the evil dead.
My take? (At least) more than one. Consensus is 2012 was weak. But I think 2011 was particularly strong--great houses, two very good scare zones with a clever gimmick in a third--and 2010 was at least alright. More importantly, we know a number of factors came together at once to hurt 2012, so I'm inclined to give them a mulligan. And even then, we still had two or three stellar houses and, for many B&T fans, the strongest show in years. Also a gimmick of roaming hordes that doesn't work as a replacement for SZs but is certainly a fun addition to them.
Speaking of B&T--out of curiosity, which are your favorite years in the "modern era" (since the switch from stunt fight finale to dance party finale)? As I said, a lot of people thought 2012 was the best in years, but you clearly hated it. Not attacking you, just wondering what your benchmark is.
2005 was pretty good, it really went down hill when they got in trouble with Disney, IMO.
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but stilts draw crowds in any scare zone. As the night goes on, the crowds get bigger and the people get wasted, that becomes a serious hazard. Stilt walkers get injured during HHN all the time from idiots trying to be bad asses because they think just because they are in a theme park and paid their money, they can do whatever they want. I saw multiple walkers lose teeth last year from getting punched while bending over.
- May 26, 2010
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Agreed on most of the points you made... I really liked 2011 and put it on about the level of 2009. It easily had the strongest house lineup of any year I've gone (not a weak house in the bunch - though I thought THING was just okay). The zones were also strong for the most part - 7 is my favorite of all time, Acid Attack was impressive in its scale and execution, Nightmaze kind of flopped but still was fun to go through, Grown Evil was eerie and beautiful (just not scary...), and Canyon was really cool & creative for what it was. The icon kind of blew, as did her zone... which resulted in it not being nearly as compelling as 2008, story-wise.
2010 was... just okay. The house lineup was pretty weak, and the zones were mostly glorified photo ops. The first awful Bill & Ted show I've ever seen. Lack of real overarching theme hurt the event (no, FEAR taking over Universal Studios isn't really a theme, it's a cop out).
2012 was awful, but I think people put too much blame on the construction and the parade. There were clear work arounds. Really, the only setback that came late in the game and couldn't be planned around was the destruction of Soundstage 44 - and they recovered nicely with the quite good House of Horrors. They knew about the parade. They knew about Amity. Why weren't they more prepared? And why were they initially only planning 7 houses? Clearly they can manage 4 in the soundstages if they choose to. The focus on IPs and shift away from compelling storytelling content of years' past (instead shifting to Hollywood's "let's get the biggest properties possible" strategy) signals a disturbing paradigm shift in the way the event is looked at and planned. It has nothing to do with the construction. That trend appears to be continuing this year, and I don't think it's changing just because a house isn't being leveled several weeks into construction. Amity is still gone, and the parade is still going... The hordes were a mess and often terrible. Casual friends who went to the event told me they hated them and asked why there weren't scare zones "with decorations and stuff." I agree with you, though - they're a GREAT addition, but they can't and won't be the replacement. 2008, once again, sets the bar here - six permanent scare zones with 3 "hordes" (who granted, didn't move too much.)
Bill & Ted 2012 was easily the worst show I've seen, written by a new, apparently mediocre, writer. There was no plot - no character - and barely any funny jokes. (Those random Don Draper bits? Really?) You know you're in trouble when the biggest laughs come from the blooper reel before the show started. I've yet to hear from anyone this was the best show yet... where exactly did you hear that, if I may ask? The only slightly memorable bit was the Epic Rap Battle between Barack & Romney - that I really enjoyed and thought was clever, though I thought 2008's McCain v Obama sketch was funnier. Either way, this year's got censored thanks to that braindead news article going viral, so I guess we can check political jokes off the list of things Bill & Ted now can't make fun of...
It doesn't help that they're apparently pandering to this new writer so much that his girlfriend got cast in the show (hence the slightly... erm... chunkier lady during the usually sensual opening number). He's back this year, so, goodie, I guess. My favorite show had 2009's with the Land of the Lost loose plot, though 2008's Hellboy show was pretty hilarious at first (at least during opening weekend before they censored some of the naughtier bits). Agreed with October's Fade though that it went downhill as soon as Disney started getting involved... I've watched 2006's show via YT and it was excellent. Now the script has to pass so many hurdles and inspections and censoring that there's little chance it can really be funny.
- May 26, 2010
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The house list leaked in 2008, too, but they luckily had an extremely compelling website that made each reveal very interesting, even though we already knew about the themes. The same thing pretty much happened in 2009 when they officially revealed 5 of the houses right off the bat.
I didn't even bother to "tune in" for this reveal since there was nothing to see. "PS" didn't even post anything until today, post-reveal. The "reveal" was just a picture of The Evil Dead that's been plastered on every DVD cover.
So I think we're largely in agreement--2012 bad, 2011/2009 good, 2008 pretty amazing, 2010 somewhere in the middle (I suspect I liked it more than you--even B&T grew on me, ended up far better than 2007 or 2008). That's not enough of a pattern I'm not willing to chalk it up to much more than luck.
In addition to losing SS 44, they had AWiL snatched away for legal reasons. Technically an IP, but it sounds like an IP Creative was eager to play with--hence its return this year. I think the hordes were a nice theoretical response to the parade route--they just didn't work in practice. Had there been a 2009 crowd rather than a 2012 crowd, might have been better. Honestly, I think the record crowds and unseasonable rain put a damper on the event as much as any creative choices. And at least this year we get back 8 houses and SZs, so correcting their mistakes. If 2013 is as bad as last year, then I'm right with you--but until then, like I said, willing to call a mulligan.
Not the best, but best in a while. Chatter around Finns, mostly. There was as much plot as, say, 2006 (the year everyone seems to love) or 2007--here's a bad guy, let's find some people to fight him, dumb resolution, dance number! It's just an excuse to bring out pop culture icons anyway.
I thought the quick hit jokes--especially toward the end in the montage--worked well without bogging the show down. "Rooster Cogburn's True Grits," for example, would have worked so much better in that format, rather than dragging on for 90 seconds. The Don Draper bits could have been stronger, but at least they moved.
Also, I thought the thick girl was pretty cute.
Not arguing that. I think the blow-up of Social media killed the intricate, involved website reveals.
- May 26, 2010
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So I think we're largely in agreement--2012 bad, 2011/2009 good, 2008 pretty amazing, 2010 somewhere in the middle (I suspect I liked it more than you--even B&T grew on me, ended up far better than 2007 or 2008). That's not enough of a pattern I'm not willing to chalk it up to much more than luck.
Again, I'm more concerned about the paradigm shift at this point - powers out west are running the show. That's a very different change than just 2009 or 2011 not being quite as great as 2008. But we'll see. You're right, we're in agreement - I'd rank 2010 well below 2009 and 2011 but I thought it was significantly better than 2012, if that helps. I saw B&T three times throughout the run that year, and it just never clicked with me. I liked a few of the sketches (like "Pecker" and the opening slides), but overall it was just okay at best and pretty bleh at worst. A friend of mine who's attended the event with me every year I've gone (but who doesn't follow all of the speculation, just hops in the car with me when it's time to go and I fill him in on the way) turned to me following the 2010 show and said, "That was $#!t." I just kind of shrugged.
In addition to losing SS 44, they had AWiL snatched away for legal reasons. Technically an IP, but it sounds like an IP Creative was eager to play with--hence its return this year. I think the hordes were a nice theoretical response to the parade route--they just didn't work in practice. Had there been a 2009 crowd rather than a 2012 crowd, might have been better. Honestly, I think the record crowds and unseasonable rain put a damper on the event as much as any creative choices. And at least this year we get back 8 houses and SZs, so correcting their mistakes. If 2013 is as bad as last year, then I'm right with you--but until then, like I said, willing to call a mulligan.
Touche on the AWiL... they've wanted to do that property since 2008. We got Silent Hill as the replacement, I believe? Unfortunately it doesn't negate the other points I made. They should've known the hordes were going to work - they were such a disaster in 2007 that they had to add "zones" a couple weeks in. We saw a swift return to permanent zones the next year. I really don't know why they didn't learn. To me the issue wasn't just crowds, though those definitely hurt it even more - it was the lack of real sets, lack of music, lack of lighting, place, context - it was all random, sporadic, and felt cheap. (In a lot of cases, it *was* very cheap.) I attended the third weekend, flying down from Boston - the only time there was rain was Thursday, where it was torrential downpour most of the night. I sucked it up, bought a poncho, and did my best to enjoy myself, ruining my sneakers in the process. But you know what? I also dealt with downpours in 2009 and 2011, and those events were still far better. Rain has no impact on the quality of the event. It wasn't very good. Walking Dead, Silent Hill, and Alice Cooper (and debatably Penn & Teller) were all poorly designed houses.
I guess I'm just frustrated that we have to praise them for correcting their mistakes in the first place - the seven house debacle never should've happened. You make a fair point, though, another bad year in a row will help determine if this is a pattern or a one-off mess-up. I'm willing to concede that - I'm just concerned that based on what I'm hearing, this is looking like a mess up. The house list is middling and the zone situation sounds all over the place. But we'll see.
Not the best, but best in a while. Chatter around Finns, mostly. There was as much plot as, say, 2006 (the year everyone seems to love) or 2007--here's a bad guy, let's find some people to fight him, dumb resolution, dance number! It's just an excuse to bring out pop culture icons anyway.
Huh. Thought the consensus was that it was pretty horrible amongst the veterans. It's the younger crowd that usually find it funny because the humor has gotten increasingly reliant on sophomoric stuff since it can't really attack anything really fun directly. I guess my problem with 2012's show (besides it not being very funny) was that it was barely about Bill & Ted - every show has had sequences involving other pop culture parodies interacting with each other without B&T, but it was kind of taken to an extreme last year. It seemed like a bunch of half-thought out ideas for sketches that they slapped together into a B&T show. I dunno.
I thought the quick hit jokes--especially toward the end in the montage--worked well without bogging the show down. "Rooster Cogburn's True Grits," for example, would have worked so much better in that format, rather than dragging on for 90 seconds. The Don Draper bits could have been stronger, but at least they moved.
I will agree it had a faster, improved pace that was much better than 2011's glacier pace - I just found 2011's jokes (slightly) funnier, so I didn't mind if they stuck around for a while longer. (Though god, that True Grits bit was pretty awful.) But yeah, the pace was good. The problem was the jokes weren't funny and the plot (which yeah is usually thread-bare, but at least typically makes some sense) was MIA.
Also, I thought the thick girl was pretty cute.
To each their own, I suppose.
Responses in bold!
- May 26, 2010
- 6,001
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Probably. But there's no reason they can't coexist - they handled it pretty damn well in 2011, IMO. Simple, creative reveals, contests, and build up for average joe of the general public, and more thoughtful, in-depth backstories and games on the website. Best of both worlds.
